What to do when you encounter the hunt on trails?

[marta]

Hey guys! What should a horse and rider do if they encounter a hunt on the trails? Stop and wait? Try to pick a different direction and keep moving? What if you're on a one way trail?
Trying to educate myself so we don't cause any upset.

[Delphia]

Join them and have a great time!

But seriously, foxhunters are guests on the land and respectful of whomever they meet. If you have any concerns then they will make every effort to accommodate you. So don't worry.

[Thomas_1]

Join them and hope you don't look too out of place in casual gear with a cowboy hat and western saddle!!

[marta]

unfortunately that's too rich for my pocketbook;)

seriously, friend had a problem and we got talking about it, but neither one of us was sure what the hunt expected in such a situation.

[War Admiral]

Main thing is to keep your horse *facing* the hounds so that there is less likelihood of a hound getting kicked. If that means you have to back off the trail, then back off the trail.

[dawglover]

the hunt secretary will probably be glad to send you a copy of their fixture card so that you will have an idea of where they will be hunting on particular days. That'll make it easier to avoid them !

[marta]

we have the fixture card from our local hunt posted at the barn. yes, it makes it easier to choose where to go.

i'm more concerned about other areas where we ride that other hunts use. i probably should check w/ them re their fixture cards and see if i can figure out where in the park they're going to be.

thanks!

[armandh]

let us assume for the moment that the hounds have run past you in the woods and since you are on the only trail you expect the hunt will come any moment. walk your horse in to the woods and turn around to face the trail, hold hard. your horse will likely want to follow.
if you have control issues you may want to be even farther off the trail.

[marta]

gothedistance - you're like a walking wikipedia girl;)

[Delphia]

What you should expect: courtesy.

A SW Va. hunt has the good manners to invite some one found trial riding to join in the fun; and sincerely want you to join in if you think you and your horse capable. There is usually a group of slower riders in the rear if you would feel comfortable there.

If you are not comfortable riding in a group, then gothedistance has some good tips to help avoid or to find a hunt.

If unable to avoid a hunt, your horse will most likely become very excited to have a group ride by. Please express any concerns to those you meet and a SW Va. hunt will proceed past in a manner safe for all; or as armandh and others suggests, you may want to get well off the trail.

Buggers to the chase; foxhunting is no fun for anyone when a rider is on the ground and a horse is loose in the field. In some incredibly rare event should any member of a SW Va. hunt be caught being rude or unsafe, said member is taken aside and given "a talkin' to"!:eek:

[marta]

i tried looking up the website for monmouth county hunt in nj to check their fixture card. looks like they don't have a website. anyone know of their contact info?

[goeslikestink]

i often have the local hunt go through the same farmland / woods i ride over
i just join up with them, sometimes go the whole distance some times not sometimes i turn off
and then often hold sponsored rides going over farmland that isnt avaialble to the local riders
so its not a problem if i ride on my own or in a group of people
i take my mare where i am going if theres others about its doesnt really matter

[Beverley]

Under NO circumstances should you join them. You haven't been invited, and hunts are private affairs. It is like gatecrashing a private party -- just not done.

You have given much sage advice, but as another former whipper-in, I have yet to encounter a hunt, even some of the alleged hoity-toity ones in Virginia, that wouldn't invite a passer-by to tag along.

[marta]

do all hunts discourage their riders from riding to the area where the hunt starts from? (another words, they want you to trailer to the area rather than ride to the area) and if so, what's the reasoning behind it?

[J Swan]

do all hunts discourage their riders from riding to the area where the hunt starts from? (another words, they want you to trailer to the area rather than ride to the area) and if so, what's the reasoning behind it?

Mostly because you might disturb wildlife or foil a scent line.

[marta]

a member of our local hunt always extends an invitation to me to join one day capping but he ALWAYS remind me NOT to hack over but to trailer over, which in my mind (when the meeting spot is 2 miles away from the barn) makes no sense and in fact makes it more of a hassle than just tacking up and riding up to the area.
he did mention something about the hounds being confused but i didn't understand why the scent of my horse would confuse the hounds. but i think i understand now that it can disturb the line of scent... although i admit i still think it's a dumb rule and if ever decide to go capping, i will make sure that they are leaving from far far away from our barn so that i can warrant pulling out the trailer;)

[J Swan]

Not at all. If a hunt member, or guest, lives within hacking distance, they are certainly free to hack over. Less trailers mean less damage to the fields where the meets generally take place. ;)

If you wanted want some fun reading, dive into some of those old hunting tales from the 20's and 30's. Many of them would talk about getting up at 2AM, riding 20-30 miles to a meet (!!! I kid you not!!), hunting all day, and then riding home, often arriving in the wee hours of the morning. Those stories are a real hoot.

In my mind those old time foxhunters were really the first, true, endurance riders. :yes: And those old Thoroughbred hunters were TOUGH horses!!

Not all hunts want people hacking over. It may have been kosher to do it years ago - and may still be appropriate in large fixtures or certain areas of the country.

But many of them have private inholdings whose owners don't want the hunt on their land, or the rider may disturb a covert the huntsman is planning to draw. There is no way for the rider to know it. I can think of several fixtures in my hunt where some landowners have denied permission for the hunt to cross - and not everyone is overly familiar with the property lines. If a rider was to hack through it - either to go in early or to get to the meet - the landowner would go ballistic - and rightfully so.
Same if a rider was to hack through a covert the huntsman was planning to draw.

Guess it would depend on the hunt and its territory. I could hack to many fixtures around here - but I can't because of traffic and some landowners who don't want hunters on their land.

[Beverley]

but a member of the field paused, turned back to us, and I was *gently* reminded I shouldn't be following the hunt unless I was invited and paid the capping fee.

So... general etiquette says it is better to be polite and take that attitude that, unless you are expressly invited, you don't tag along with any foxhunt that happens to cross your path. :yes:

To be sure, your etiquette note is valid. But an idiot member of the field does not dictate what the particular hunt's policy is, at Piedmont or anywhere else. In this case the field member committed the Mortal Sin of potentially offending a landowner, and would've been in deep kimche with the MFHs had they know that someone in the field dared to say something to a passer-by without knowing who that passer-by might be. Landowners are ALWAYS welcome to join in, even if they show up naked on a zebra.

[Ponyclubrocks]

Not at all. If a hunt member, or guest, lives within hacking distance, they are certainly free to hack over. Less trailers mean less damage to the fields where the meets generally take place. ;)

If you wanted want some fun reading, dive into some of those old hunting tales from the 20's and 30's. Many of them would talk about getting up at 2AM, riding 20-30 miles to a meet (!!! I kid you not!!), hunting all day, and then riding home, often arriving in the wee hours of the morning. Those stories are a real hoot.

In my mind those old time foxhunters were really the first, true, endurance riders. :yes: And those old Thoroughbred hunters were TOUGH horses!!

When I hunted in the early 70’s I would hack to every meet. The kennels were 20 minutes from my home. But I would even hack to away meets, sometimes riding 3 hours to get to the hunt. I had a tough little horse that would go all day (and I had him 32 years so it must not have bothered him too much). The master was a neighbor and often he would haul me home after one of these away meets. I think I scared some of the adults when they figured out I was crossing four lane highways on my horse to get to some fixtures! My dear parents (non horse people) had no idea what I was up to. Once 30 years later I told my parents about the time I rode my horse on the car ferry to get to a meet across the river, they were aghast! Oh but they were wonderful times….

[Elghund2]

The other thing to keep in mind when in the vicinity of an active hunt is that you will have hunt staff on those trails. So while the hounds may be off in the distance you may have a staff member travailing at pretty good speed. Depending on the hunt, those staff members can be at quite a distance from the hounds and the field.

I'd be careful to listen carefully.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I've lived out in big hunt country for a while...and once long ago would help green break young staff horses (have a few good cubbing stories). Lots of great advice on this thread. I've had more trouble with the hunt coming through the farm while I'm in the ring (usually on a barely broke baby horses whose eyes start bugging out) then meeting out in the country. But when I've been caught out, I just listen and keep my eyes open. I also look out for the Hilltoppers. I've been out more then once and stopped to hang out with them since they normally know what direction everyone is heading and often have some nice calm horses to keep my own horse calm. Then they can give you the best advice as to where to head to avoid the field. The good hilltoppers know their way around the country better then anyone...see a bigger picture then the field and are great about helping the lone non-hunt riders keep out of trouble.

[armandh]

all the work the field secretary does to have wavers in hand B4 the hounds are out of the kennel is undone by a well meaning but cluless member.

[Delphia]

... wavers in hand B4...

Very good point. It is safer to say "No signed waiver, then no go."

Some type of people will sue regardless of a signed piece of paper. Fortunately Virginia has legislation that reduces liability risk associated with foxhunting.

MFH is in charge and no one is permitted to hunt without approval of MFH. If someone encounters a hunt in progress, surely it is the MFH that would extend an invitation to join in the fun. MFH should be clued in enough to get a verbal acknowledgment in front of a field of witnesses waiving liability and right to sue.

The several waivers of right to sue that I have signed are written in some strange tongue designed for trial lawyers to ask "Did you understand what you were signing?"

I'm no lawyer; IMHO a field of witnesses to someone acknowledging "Horses are dangerous to be around. Foxhunting is dangerous. If you join in and get hurt or killed, then blame only yourself; don't blame us!" should be as effective at trial as a signed paper.

As for the club's insurance policy, what exactly is a "properly executed" waiver of liability and right to sue? Only signed, witnessed, and notarized?

marta: What to do when you encounter the hunt on trails?
Well, you can view it as
threat, challenge, just another trail hazard, social encounter, bonus, spectacle, thrilling, take a chance.

[Whistlejacket]

Marta -

You have gotten good advice here.

In addition, when you speak to the hunt secretary to ask for a fixture card, you can always ask them what they would prefer that you do in such circumstances. Believe me, they will appreciate having congenial relationships with other riders who have permission to use the trails. :)

WJ

[wateryglen]

You might just want to go along with them, watch them, listen to them and experience the thrill!! THEN you too will want to go foxhunting and then you'll go formally and THEN ......you'll be hooked!! :D So you better watch out!! The danger is....that it's addictive....and you might get hooked!!! ;) And then it's like a really bad heroine addiction!! :eek: It just keeps getting bigger & more & more expensive, addictive, obscessive, larger (more horses, more saddles, more clothes!) and pretty soon it's all you can think about and want to spend all your time doing!!!

I owe my personal addiction to the Fairfax Hunt; whom I witnessed whilst trailriding with my BO one early, cool, foggy morning. (My horse was dead quiet,perfect!). She explained everything and got me around hilltopping & able to see the action. They were magnificent in formal attire, unbelievably quiet for such a large group, outstanding jumping at what I thought were big jumps, extremely friendly & inviting us to join them, and the sounds....the sounds.....sent goosebumps ......the first day of my addiction!! And then the fox ran right by in front of us!!!......then the hounds!!......
So see? The danger is to YOU!!! :winkgrin: Enjoy!!

[horsegirltv]

The worst thing a trail rider can do is cross the scent line between the fox and hounds. If you ever encounter a fox hunt while out do your best to stay clear away from them, halt your horses and wait for the hunt to pass. Then try to move in the opposite direction. I have observed some VERY angry huntsmen and even an altercation between hunt staff and trail riders when out hunting myself. Also be sure to never speak to the hounds if you ever get close to them, and make sure your horses are clear of them (so as not to kick them) If you pass on the same trial as a hunt, pull off the trail and face your horses head towards the crowd, never the tail, as he may kick a passing hound, huntsman, or member. Just try to be polite, quiet, and stay away from the hounds.


Jessica

http://www.horsegirltv.com

[marta]

thanks for the warning, sounds like you truly enjoy your sport.
but unless i can join a 'fox hunt' that doesn't involve chasing of a real live animal, i'm not going. just not my cup of tea.

[Renae]

The worst thing a trail rider can do is cross the scent line between the fox and hounds. If you ever encounter a fox hunt while out do your best to stay clear away from them, halt your horses and wait for the hunt to pass. Then try to move in the opposite direction. I have observed some VERY angry huntsmen and even an altercation between hunt staff and trail riders when out hunting myself. Also be sure to never speak to the hounds if you ever get close to them, and make sure your horses are clear of them (so as not to kick them) If you pass on the same trial as a hunt, pull off the trail and face your horses head towards the crowd, never the tail, as he may kick a passing hound, huntsman, or member. Just try to be polite, quiet, and stay away from the hounds.


Jessica

http://www.horsegirltv.com

Why should the huntsmen get angry? They are most likely guests on the land the same as the trail riders. The land may even belong to the trail riders, or the trail riders may be relatives or customers of the land owner, if it is private land. If it is public land then everyone has the same rights to be there. I do not hunt, and although I think the sport is fantastic, if a hunt is out and they come across, say, a family taking their children for a weekend morning trail ride, I think it would be very inconsiderate and dangerous for them to barrel along and ignore the fact that they could be putting others in danger.

To add- I do hunt upland game. If I am out hunting with a dog and come across a hiker do I tell the hiker screw you its hunting season get out of my way? No, of course not, I call my dog back to me, and cease hunting until I know the hiker has gone a safe distance behind me.

[Ponyclubrocks]

Why should the huntsmen get angry? They are most likely guests on the land the same as the trail riders. The land may even belong to the trail riders, or the trail riders may be relatives or customers of the land owner, if it is private land. If it is public land then everyone has the same rights to be there. I do not hunt, and although I think the sport is fantastic, if a hunt is out and they come across, say, a family taking their children for a weekend morning trail ride, I think it would be very inconsiderate and dangerous for them to barrel along and ignore the fact that they could be putting others in danger.

To add- I do hunt upland game. If I am out hunting with a dog and come across a hiker do I tell the hiker screw you its hunting season get out of my way? No, of course not, I call my dog back to me, and cease hunting until I know the hiker has gone a safe distance behind me.

I was starting to get really annoyed by the tone of entitlement of some of these posts...I am a huge hunt fan BUT other equestrians have the same rights on public or private land where they have been granted permission to ride.

I would think it very unsportsmanlike (and unhorsemanlike) for a large group to blast past a lone rider or two without checking to ensure their safety. People who I have hunted with in the past would never do such a thing, even if the staff went on with the hounds, the MFH would ensure a few folks checked with and even stayed with the trail riders until everyone was OK. Then and only then would those field members ride off from the trail folks and rejoin the field.

I think a huntsman or staff member (or anyone for that matter) who blasted an innocent rider caught unawares by the hunt would be totally out of line. (They may seethe quietly to themselves, or rant later at the breakfast- but should never be anything but courteous and safety conscious on the outside).

JMO.

[Painted Wings]

The hunt used to go through our property. I would try to avoid the days and times they hunted and when they always hunted on Sunday morning it was possible. Then they started throwing in an occiasional Saturday and since they didn't have a fixture I didn't know. So I would try to stay out of the line of the hounds and avoid them if I could.

As far as hacking to hunts, I've done that too. The huntsman would much prefer that you stay on the road when hacking to the meet to avoid spooking the game. It depends on the fixture and where they hunted. At one fixture it would have been pretty far to stay on the roads and they did not have permission to hunt the area I crossed through so I didn't worry about it there. You need to use good judgement and when it doubt ask the huntsman. They will be more than happy to tell you. Sometimes it matters what direction the wind is blowing and which way they plan to draw.

[Beverley]

I would think it very unsportsmanlike (and unhorsemanlike) for a large group to blast past a lone rider or two without checking to ensure their safety. People who I have hunted with in the past would never do such a thing, even if the staff went on with the hounds, the MFH would ensure a few folks checked with and even stayed with the trail riders until everyone was OK. Then and only then would those field members ride off from the trail folks and rejoin the field.

I think a huntsman or staff member (or anyone for that matter) who blasted an innocent rider caught unawares by the hunt would be totally out of line. (They may seethe quietly to themselves, or rant later at the breakfast- but should never be anything but courteous and safety conscious on the outside).

JMO.

Yes, that's how hunts acquire bad names for themselves and for hunting in general in their communities. Another way is holding up auto traffic on roads- yes, horses and hounds have the right to use public roads, but holding up some poor individual who is just trying to get to work on time doesn't do a hunt any favors.

[J Swan]

Hunters in our area hacking to a meet go via the roads, not cross fields. They are all gravel roads here, very little paved, so traffic isn't an issue.

You're fortunate. I'd certainly hack over to a couple of meets if I didn't have to worry so much. I don't mind going on paved roads, really - it's that too many people are starting to use these back roads as shortcuts. It's not unusual to have people doing 70mph on s curves. And I'd have to cross land that is posted; but I'm not 100% sure of where the property lines are - so I just don't chance it.

When our hunt encounters anybody - we slow down and say hello. Even on a run. Most of the folks we encounter are farm hands or owners doing their chores, or other hunters. Either way - good manners always prevail. If it wasn't for the generosity of landowners, and the good sportsmanship of other hunters - we'd never be able to hunt at all.

I don't know if it's wise to invite the person along - it's certainly good manners -but good manners don't protect you in case of a lawsuit. Guess it's up to the individual hunt.

[Weatherford]

Another way is holding up auto traffic on roads- yes, horses and hounds have the right to use public roads, but holding up some poor individual who is just trying to get to work on time doesn't do a hunt any favors.

There is a great Jimmy Jones story - he was founder, huntsman and Master of the Tewksbury Foot Bassets until his death some years ago.... the hound were following a hare (well, it might have been deer ;) ) straight to the intersections of Interstates 78 & 287... Full tilt!!! He is running way behind them yelling "STOP THEM STOP THEM!!!!!!" My ex and another young man, also very fleet of foot turned, then gathered the hounds before disaster struck. Jones finally caught up (he was well into his 70's by then!!), and yells at the two "saviours" "NOT THE HOUNDS, G-D-it, the CARS, I meant STOP THE CARS!!!!"

(At which point, my ex turned to his compatriot - whom he had never met - and said, "he is such an a**!" To which his compatriot replied, "I know, he's my Dad...")

:lol:

Landowners are automatically invited to hunt for free in many hunts.

[CarrieK]

This is a very interesting and informative topic. Thanks to all who shared their knowledge.

[Red Hunter]

[QUOTE=Weatherford;2645351]There is a great Jimmy Jones story - he was founder, huntsman and Master of the Tewksbury Foot Bassets until his death some years ago.... the hound were following a hare (well, it might have been deer ;) ) straight to the intersections of Interstates 78 & 287... Full tilt!!! He is running way behind them yelling "STOP THEM STOP THEM!!!!!!" My ex and another young man, also very fleet of foot turned, then gathered the hounds before disaster struck. Jones finally caught up (he was well into his 70's by then!!), and yells at the two "saviours" "NOT THE HOUNDS, G-D-it, the CARS, I meant STOP THE CARS!!!!"

(At which point, my ex turned to his compatriot - whom he had never met - and said, "he is such an a**!" To which his compatriot replied, "I know, he's my Dad...")Quote]



Well, I with Jimmy Jones on this: YOU STOP THE CARS - NOT THE HOUNDS. Why? It is a hell of a lot easier to ask a driver of a car to stop on a road then try to stop a pack of screaming hounds hot on the scent of a fox. Chances are, one hound will get past you on onto the road and possibly get hit by a car. I have stopped traffic for hounds on many occasions, the drivers of the cars have always been patient and understanding about having to wait just a minute or two for hounds to cross. I always thank the drivers for stopping and waiting.

[Renae]

LOL I-287 & I-78 something tells me you are not going to stop the 4 lanes of traffic going 60-80 mph each way on both of those highways because some dogs are coming. Unless you want to start a multi-car pile up :dead:

[Red Hunter]

Oh, I didn't realize that these were two busy MAJOR interstates. In that case, I retract my statement in that it would be vain attempt to try to stop traffic on a busy highway like that.

[amc2]

remember- being rudely advised by a rider with the hunt- that you shouldnt follow without paying..does not mean that this comes from the hunt itself...

Sure oyu shoudl be invited.and wouldnt want to see people just hanging around tagging along- but all of us who hunt these days know we are very dependent and thankful of landowners and others like you who allow us to hunt multiple tracts of precious land- so most are quiet ready to recognize that we have probably surprised your horse and disturbed your nice quiet hack- and care to join us for a few fields.....

checkng the fixture is a great idea to try to plan your ride ahead to avoid bad surprises- yes face the hounds and if you can get off and get back on(g) sometimes taking your horse just over to the tree line- off the trail - and holding him is a nice safe way to handle it if they are approaching at speed.