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ASB Stars
Aug. 10, 2007, 12:09 PM
I am always interested in the threads where someone mentions a horse that they have, and wants to know what the experts here know about the personality of that horses' family.

So, my question is, who are the studs with the NASTIEST, and of course, the nicest, personalities. Do/did they throw it? And, are there some nice that threw alot of nasty, and vice-versa?

Thanks in advance for sharing your stories of these boys...:yes:

ShowMeTheGlory
Aug. 10, 2007, 02:27 PM
I read somewhere that Ribot's sire Tenerani was really nasty! I'll see if I can dig up what I read.

trakama
Aug. 10, 2007, 03:47 PM
What about the offspring of Private Account or even the Damascus line? We have a Private Terms mare that has ALOT of nasty attitude that has no problem throwing a swift kick if she isn't happy or doesn't get her way...the barn & pasture "witch" if you will and then there is our Eastern Echo mare, the sweetest thing you ever had the pleasure of being around BUT she is pushy and does put the Private Terms mare in her place whenever "witchy" starts.

We also have a Tom Rolfe & Hoist the Flag mares that are BEAUTIFUL! Sweet, loving, quite and always wanting please, what more could you ask for.

I know the question asked was about sires but has anyone considered the female line?

Blueshadow
Aug. 10, 2007, 03:53 PM
Dynaformer - very very nasty. His son Barbaro? Not.

Barnfairy
Aug. 10, 2007, 04:28 PM
You have to ask yourself how much of a mean stud's temperament can be attributed to nurture vs. nature.

Sure, aggression can be a heritable trait. But look at how most studs for racing are housed: solitary confinement, perhaps staring at your competition all day, no direct contact with other horses but for the act of mating itself and even then those pesky humans still get in the way...I don't care how much the brass is polished, living conditions like that can make for one helluva son-bitch.

You also have to keep in mind that a certain amount of natural stallion behavior --biting, rearing, just being rank in general-- stems directly from testosterone. Their daughters and gelded sons just won't have the same 'roid rage fueling them.

To add: I had the honor of meeting Dynaformer (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2677972440099108256NOHwyd) in person this past May; though the chain-shank sewn into his halter gave evidence of his difficulty in being handled, not once did that stallion so much as flick an ear back the entire time he was being gawked at. He stood there looking pleased as punch with himself, waiting, just waiting, for someone to make the mistake of offering him a finger-food snack I suppose. Given his reputation I was expecting a full ears pinned flat back, mouth gaping open with teeth bared, rearing and striking display upon being approached by leering tourists.

I never met Barbaro, though I must say that he did display a certain kind of aggression on the race track, a trait that is most desirable in this industry: the attitude to win at all cost.

LivviesMom
Aug. 10, 2007, 04:37 PM
We also have a Tom Rolfe & Hoist the Flag mares that are BEAUTIFUL! Sweet, loving, quite and always wanting please, what more could you ask for.

I know the question asked was about sires but has anyone considered the female line?

I am SOOOO Glad to hear that! My filly has that line, her dam..nasty..but I believe that more to be due to a few very rough nasty years..
I'm pleased to see that the line seems to produce a nicer temperment. For the most Part Liv is pretty sweet unless shes in heat. Quite Proud of herself, and LOVES to look at herself in mirrors...

InVA
Aug. 10, 2007, 05:09 PM
A friend used to work for Frank Whitley and said that Ruffian was NASTY!

Texarkana
Aug. 10, 2007, 05:11 PM
I'm really not a big fan of the disposition stereotypes of offspring, as in my experiences they're mostly a bunch of hooey.

But ironically, I just looked up the pedigrees of some of the meanest and most psychotic race horses I can remember handling. I was surprised to find either Dixieland Band or Kris S in ALL of their pedigrees.

Coincidence? Probably, because I really don't think those stallions are known for being all that difficult. And I know I've met plenty of friendly and agreeable Dixieland Band and Kris S progeny to balance out the nasty ones.

P.S. Dynaformer is such a nasty PITA that they leave a chain attached over the noseband of his halter at all times so all his (brave) handlers have to do is snap on a shank. Ah... boys will be boys... but ironically, he's another Roberto offspring. Yet Barbaro was definitely not unusually agressive for a 3 year old colt. He actually had a rather decent disposition and probably would have been an absolute lovebug in a more natural lifestyle.

harvestmoon
Aug. 10, 2007, 05:15 PM
What about the offspring of Private Account or even the Damascus line?

That's funny - I have a Private Account grandson, and he is the absolute sweetest horse. :) I doubt there is one stallion that consistently produces evil horses 100% - but, who knows! :lol:

InVA
Aug. 10, 2007, 05:33 PM
P.S. Dynaformer is such a nasty PITA that they leave a chain attached over the noseband of his halter at all times so all his (brave) handlers have to do is snap on a shank. Ah... boys will be boys... but ironically, he's another Roberto offspring. Yet Barbaro was definitely not unusually agressive for a 3 year old colt. He actually had a rather decent disposition and probably would have been an absolute lovebug in a more natural lifestyle.

I heard that the chain shank was at the end of a broomstick! naughty pony!

ASB Stars
Aug. 10, 2007, 05:45 PM
Who was a stud. He was as kind as kind could be. Was it Nasrullah or Ribot who ate a furrow in the ceiling of their stall? Stood on their hindlegs and chewed, I remember reading.

I do recall thatRibot could not stand to be able to see another horse, when turned out. His paddock fencing was high, and solid, or so I read.

Nashua was a self-mutilator- wasn't he? :sigh:

TKR
Aug. 10, 2007, 06:13 PM
Ribot was insane -- he stood on his hindlegs and chewed on his stall and was pretty dangerous to everyone but his personal groom. He was on loan to Darby Dan from Italy, but when they came to take him back, he was too dangerous to move, so he died at DD.I don't think Nashua was a self-mutilator, I think it was Round Table. When I visited Alleged, he had two shanks hanging at his paddock gate because he had to be led by two handlers. I did pat him, however and left with all of my appendages. I have a mare that is out of a granddaughter with some other firecrackers in her pedigree (Crimson Satan, Nijinsky II, etc.) and she is incredibly intelligent and sensitive but certainly not mean. She is easy to handle, just likes to be treated with kindness and respect (like I do!). I also had a Jig Time (Native Dancer) daughter who was a very sweet mare, but could be a handful at times. Jig Time would bite, strike, kick, etc. I have a stallion out of that mare that is a piece of cake. I have ridden him through a dressage test at home bareback with just a halter and leadline. Nearco was also pretty crazy and dangerous, only handled by his groom. I also had a groom at Clairborne tell me that Raise A Native held a grudge against someone that he had a confrontation with and got off a mare he was breeding to go after them. Buckpasser was a kind horse and Swaps could be ground tied. Who knows? It's all relative I guess.
PennyG

TBCollector
Aug. 10, 2007, 07:29 PM
Unbridled was one of the kindest stallions I've ever been around. Same for Sham, Secretariat's rival. I have met a lot of Sham babies who are jumpers/eventers and they are all really sweet.
I'd be interested to know if anyone ever met Relaunch? I have one of his (gelded) sons and he is a doll. People always comment on what a gentleman he is and trust me, I had nothing to do with it! ;)

WindyIsles
Aug. 10, 2007, 07:36 PM
I heard Sunday Silence was a bit unruly. Didn't he bite off his groom's finger in Japan?

Toadie's mom
Aug. 10, 2007, 10:10 PM
I'm very opinionated when it comes to these discussions and believe temperament is likely to be passed on. On the other hand there are exceptions to every rule !!!!!! For eventing, I wouldn't take a Storm Cat for free. They tend to be very spooky. I love Buckpasser, except through Spend A Buck. The SAB's are very attractive, but "tough". Silver Ghost is the meanest stallion I ever saw in person. Lived in his stall with halter on, and had a muzzle hanging on his door that was put on every time he was taken out. AND, he almost always had 2 handlers. I read several articles about his offspring (TB Times and The Chronicle) that emphasized how talented, but difficult, they are. I currently own the meanest, laziest TB I've ever dealt with. I've had no prior experience with his parents, so if anyone has an opinion let me know. He's by Horse Chestnut (Sadler's Wells) out of a Caveat mare. As prolific as he was I've had many Northern Dancer descendants, so don't believe it has anything to do with him.

Medley23
Aug. 10, 2007, 10:27 PM
I have a gelding son of Dynaformer who is the biggest love and easiest horse to work around. Definitely didn't get his daddy's temperment! :)

pondpony
Aug. 10, 2007, 10:52 PM
Re Round Table being a self-mutilator: When I saw him at Claiborne, he wore a neck cradle; I didn't ask about it, but I figured that's what the deal was.

FourWands
Aug. 10, 2007, 11:09 PM
One morning, while at Ashford Stud, I witnessed a groom go into Southern Halo's stall with a baseball bat. When I asked him if that was really necessary, his response was "Woodman is worse".

ravenclaw
Aug. 10, 2007, 11:10 PM
This is a fun thread!

I met Sunday Silence before he went to Japan. He didn't seem nasty, but he was full of himself and extremely mouthy/bitey (even more than most racehorses I have been around). So I wouldn't be surprised if he bit off someone's finger. :D

On the same visit to Stone Farm, I met Gato del Sol and Northern Baby. They were both nice. Halo was there, too. He seemed odd. The grooms said he could be very tough and he was not to be trusted.

Then I went to Three Chimneys Farm. Slew o' Gold and Chief's Crown were both sweethearts. I don't know what Danzig was like, but Chief's Crown and Hard Spun (who is also supposed to be nice) are both by Danzig.

Cozzene is nice and easy to work with. Raja Baba was very kind...children could go into his pasture and lead him around. I have also heard that Street Cry (sire of Street Sense) is a kind and gentle horse.

Calamber
Aug. 10, 2007, 11:49 PM
I have known personally one Sadler's Wells offspring and heard of another
through the friend that I watched ride the one. Both were crazy, one went
airborne with my friend, out on a normal hack, nearly crashed a fence, also
went bucking down a hard topped road for about a quarter of a mile. Not me, no sir.

CuriosoJorge
Aug. 11, 2007, 08:49 AM
Woodman was a very kind, even-tempered stallion early in his career. Later in life, after going through EPM treatment and breeding a zillion mares a year, he got tougher. The worst Ashford stallion was actually Storm Bird, who required two handlers and a muzzle.

Caveats are said to be tough.

Honestly, though, much of a TB's personality is due to handling. If you approach a Storm Cat going, "oh my god it's a Storm Cat and it's going to be difficult and spooky" then it probably will be. Like any other horse, firm, consistent handling will get you through many issues.

War Admiral
Aug. 11, 2007, 10:34 AM
Just curious, how has FuPeg ended up, personality-wise, now that he's a grownup?? The video on his stallion page makes him look fairly civilized. :D

That question aside, I'm with CuriosoJorge to an extent, a lot of it is handling, but I do think personality traits can be passed on. It's interesting that all the Ribots I know (including HRH Avery) are huuuuugely opinionated, and if you piss 'em off, you'd better be sure your insurance is paid up, but they are nice horses if you can get on their good side.

maxxtrot
Aug. 11, 2007, 11:35 AM
i like, and look for the buckpasser/buckfinder lines in my ottb's. i have always loved them. yes, they are tough to break and get going but when they go to work, they work. and seem to be very sound horses. my mare is a silver buck grand-daughter, well, she is mean as a snake, will kick you as quick as she will look at you when i first got her.(just bad handling seems to me) she now is very easy to handle but stay away from her backside(no-touchy)i have two that's our buck sons. one is a 5 yr.old that i bought out of a field unbroke,unhandled at 3! wow he was hard to break and get going, but is a fancy ass hunter prospect with a "10" jump on him. tough as nails. also a 2 yr.old colt that i bred here at the farm out of the silver buck mare, he is strong,big and very smart. hoping he will be my upper level event horse at somepoint. i also have a danzig grandson here. very swwet horse, can do pretty much anything to him, but nervous(raced till he was 7) but cool horse. i am with whoever said the line about the storm cat offspring. not my kinda horse, very mean all the ones i have worked with, hard to retrain and yes spooky. but i found that most did not stay very sound, not sure if it was because they seem to be very hard on themselves. but in closing, yes there are certian lines i steer clear of in sire's.

ASB Stars
Aug. 11, 2007, 12:54 PM
Just curious, how has FuPeg ended up, personality-wise, now that he's a grownup?? The video on his stallion page makes him look fairly civilized. :D

That question aside, I'm with CuriosoJorge to an extent, a lot of it is handling, but I do think personality traits can be passed on. It's interesting that all the Ribots I know (including HRH Avery) are huuuuugely opinionated, and if you piss 'em off, you'd better be sure your insurance is paid up, but they are nice horses if you can get on their good side.

But I had a Ribot grandson, and a great grandson, and they were the nicest stallions- ever. The grandson I could put anyone on,and he was over 17 hands, and massive. The great grandson was kind and bold- the first time I took him out hacking- as a three year old, I led off of him. He was a fabulous jumper, and a sweet, sweet horse.

War Admiral
Aug. 11, 2007, 01:08 PM
But I had a Ribot grandson, and a great grandson, and they were the nicest stallions- ever. The grandson I could put anyone on,and he was over 17 hands, and massive. The great grandson was kind and bold- the first time I took him out hacking- as a three year old, I led off of him. He was a fabulous jumper, and a sweet, sweet horse.

Well, but we know you know how to handle 'em, too! :yes: HRH Avery is usually like that. But BOY can he turn on a dime if he thinks he is being unfairly treated. We're going thru a rough phase right now b/c he is sick and tired of us messing with his injured hock, and honestly I'd forgotten what a complete poison pill this horse can be when he's angry. He plots and plans and lies in wait and then BOOM. World War IV. :rolleyes:

I still would loff to have the gossip on FuPeg if anyone has it! :D

tullio
Aug. 11, 2007, 02:28 PM
Caveats are said to be tough.



I had a Caveat son who was a sweetheart, but I got to hear lots of horror stories about his father! One farrier complemented me on how nice my horse was to work with, and when we told him the horse's history, he said that if he'd known the horse was by Caveat, he never would have agreed to work on him! So I have heard this one, but I guess I got an exception.

CuriosoJorge
Aug. 11, 2007, 02:40 PM
I saw Fusaichi Pegasus the January after his first year at stud, and at that time he was still very tractable and seemed easy for his groom to walk down and back and then stand up.

ASB Stars
Aug. 11, 2007, 06:43 PM
I had heard that Affirmed had some quirks when he raced- did they translate into any odd stallion behaviour?

What was Northern Dancer like? I also understood that Slew was MUCH better because they worked him- was there a time that they didn't, when they discovered this?

Was Mr. Prospector a nice horse? He is the sire who appears in the pedigrees of so many horses today- what is his infuence?

Was Count Fleet as tough in the breeding shed as he was on the track?

I have a ton of old TB books that I used to read, because I have always loved the breed, so stories are really wonderful to hear...thanks for sharing.

Peggy
Aug. 11, 2007, 08:07 PM
My Buckpasser grandson (via Moneychanger, so also related to Northern Dancer) was not easy. If he liked, trusted, and respected you, things were generally OK. I pretty much rode and handled him via a series of agreements up to a point (line in the sand?). If he crossed that he was in trouble but you had to be prepared to finish the battle. Quick, athletic, too smart to be a horse, and very opinionated. Also tough and not a cheap date where sedation was concerned (not a good combo with being difficult to work on). Probably could have ended up much worse with someone that pushed him around too much. But, I think some of his issues were a result of his upbringing. When I mentioned the farm to a track farrier he said that explained a lot as the people there didn't handle the horses much and not well when they did.

We currently have a Storm Cat grandson that seems pretty sweet. May need to re-evaluate once he has more weight, but so far, so good.

TBCollector
Aug. 11, 2007, 08:42 PM
He was one cool dude! Absolutely knew he was special and made you really work to get him to even come over for a peppermint. One of my fondest memories of him is during a Derby week many years ago, Affirmed was standing smack in the middle of his paddock at Calumet while 50 fans hung over the fence trying to entice him over with carrots. He would take a couple of steps toward them, then stop, yawn, chew, turn to scratch his bum, etc.. Probably took him 20 minutes to make it over to them.

Acertainsmile
Aug. 11, 2007, 11:27 PM
We trained a few Caveats back in the 80's.. they were a little tough, not horrible, but all seemed to have a similiar disposition... Quadratic and Quadrangle, horrible reputations, as far as the ones that I knew.. Storm Cats can be tough, we have a few close relations, most are a little on the rough side. There are a few others that I know of, but having a brain freeze right now.

GallopGal
Aug. 12, 2007, 12:35 AM
Rugged Lark was a Dressage horse. He was a very very kind horse. Everyone that I have talked to says his babies are also very kind. I have a grandson of his and he is such a sweetheart.

jenarby
Aug. 12, 2007, 08:07 AM
I've had several Private Account grandbabies and they were all sweet and easy to work with.

I found I LOVE anything by Formal Dinner. What nice horses to be around, leveled headed to ride and easy to train.

Every single Beau Genius I've had has been difficult. Awesome, tough runners but quite the hand full!

I've also had several Northern Alfeets and all were sweet to be around.

Anything I've handled by Cryptoclearance has been hot, hot, hot. Good looking but hot.

If all Hansel babies are like my gelding, I'd take a barn full of them. Even tempered, trustworthy and athletic.

TKR
Aug. 12, 2007, 08:51 AM
I had an Affirmed grandson, which I bred, out of a Key To The Kingdom (Bold Ruler) mare. He was tough, but kind and trained well. He won races in Maryland and Pennsylvania until his teens. He was not hard to handle. I also had a broodmare who was a Quadratic granddaughter and she was super intelligent and could be a handful, a bit of a Diva but a good mother and produced wonderful foals.
PennyG

ejm
Aug. 12, 2007, 10:48 AM
Northern Dancer definitely had a mind of his own and a reputation for being very difficult when younger. In his 20's he was OK for his regular groom and regular stallion barn staff and loved to ham it up for visitors, but he liked a regular routine and was never a truly easy horse to handle. Even after he retired from breeding, he had to stay in the barn when the breeding shed was open, or he'd run the fence when the vans rolled in and the other stallions went to the shed.

According to a pretty good source, his son Storm Bird had some experiences early in his career at Ashford that turned him sour against people.

Caveat was high-strung (his sire was by Bold Bidder out of a *Ribot mare) and not the easiest horse to get along with, but not mean.

I always thought many of the Damascus line horses were tough to work with, especially those by Soy Numero Uno, although one of my favorites ever was a filly by Timeless Moment.

ravenclaw
Aug. 12, 2007, 12:40 PM
I also understood that Slew was MUCH better because they worked him- was there a time that they didn't, when they discovered this?
Seattle Slew used to be at Spendthrift Farm. When Spendthrift went under, he went to Three Chimneys. Three Chimneys has someone ride their stallions (what a COOL job that would be!!). So maybe there was a change in his behavior once he went to Three Chimneys and started with regular exercise. I think it's great that their stallions are ridden. It's gotta be good for them -- both physically and mentally. If you look at pictures of the Three Chimneys stallions, they look so much better than other stallions of comparable ages that are fat and flabby, have huge cresty necks, swayed backs, etc.

When I went to Three Chimneys, Seattle Slew was there. The groom brought him out for us to see and take pictures, but we weren't allowed to touch him. The groom said that Slew sometimes acted like he was going to bite, and they didn't want any visitors to get bitten. Slew didn't seem mean, but maybe a little grumpy at being taken out of his stall. He didn't seem pleased to come out like Chief's Crown and Slew o' Gold did.

Lynnwood
Aug. 12, 2007, 12:50 PM
Does Three Chimmneys even ride the tuff ones like Dynaformer?

FourWands
Aug. 12, 2007, 12:59 PM
When we were last there, they said the only one who wasn't ridden was St. Smarty of Philly.

(I am a HUGE Smarty fan... can you tell?)

Toadie's mom
Aug. 12, 2007, 07:02 PM
My favorite stallion is Lear Fan, and I really like most all of the Roberto line. I was fortunate to be able to meet Perfect Drift "up close and personal" a few months ago. As long as I was feeding him carrots he was fine, but as soon as we ran out he was a piranha!!! My trainer was given permission to take him out of his stall if we wanted to take pictures, so apparently he isn't difficult to handle just extremely mouthy:yes: No one wanted to be responsible so we just took pics. over the stall guard :winkgrin:

chaltagor
Aug. 12, 2007, 07:36 PM
Was Mr. Prospector a nice horse? He is the sire who appears in the pedigrees of so many horses today- what is his infuence?

The trainer that I worked for at Phila Park ages ago had a Prospector grandson, Lil Fappi. He was the nicest and most gorgeous colt I ever knew on the track. What a handsome horse, and you'd never know he was intact. He was my favorite. Almost twenty years later, one of his sons was at my barn, and he had the same personality and good looks as his dad. He was such a sweetie, before and after gelding at age seven. He had NO retraining and was ridden on the trail by someone who was barely a novice and did well.

ejm
Aug. 13, 2007, 02:31 PM
Seattle Slew used to be at Spendthrift Farm. When Spendthrift went under, he went to Three Chimneys. Three Chimneys has someone ride their stallions (what a COOL job that would be!!). So maybe there was a change in his behavior once he went to Three Chimneys and started with regular exercise.

When Seattle Slew retired to Spendthrift, the original owners stipulated that he be exercised under saddle on a regular basis. He probably switched riders when he went to Three Chimneys, but they rode him at Spendthrift, too.

Last time I visited Three Chimneys (before SJ retired), I was told that they rode all the stallions that were sound enough, weather permitting. They have a nice fiber jogging track that runs between some of the stallion paddocks.

When he stood at Gainsborough, Quiet American was ridden daily or near-daily including some dressage work, according to the groom who showed me around. Not sure what is going on with QA since he moved to Darley at Jonabell.

claire
Aug. 13, 2007, 03:50 PM
Does anyone have any stories about John Henry? Before he was gelded?

I saw him at the KHP and was just struck with the imperious attitude...
he KNOWS is one the greats! :cool:

chestnutmarebeware
Aug. 13, 2007, 04:47 PM
I have to stand up for my Storm Cat granddaughter:) She's four and the easiest, sweetest, most laid-back TB I've ever had. Just look at that face! She's a big marshmallow!

http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p122/kmclaughlin21/?action=view&current=Bo2.jpg

And this is heresay from Secretariat's groom—who took me out to the field to meet the Big Guy when I was 10 years old—but he told me to be careful because Secretariat had recently gone for a reporter's earring and taken part of her ear of with it!

vineyridge
Aug. 13, 2007, 05:20 PM
Roberto and Halo are both by Hail To Reason, so you might draw conclusions from that. I've heard, though, that of the two, Halo was evil and Roberto was just difficult.

juliab
Aug. 13, 2007, 05:35 PM
I've got a Storm Cat grandson by Forest Wildcat. He's a breeding stallion and after reading this thread, I am even more impressed with his temperament. He is on limited turnout until I can get a field fenced for him and I just spent 30 minutes hand grazing him around my backyard. I always have a chain on him but most days are like today. I'd heard about the Storm Cat stories and was worried when I went to look at him, but he completely won me over when he poked his pink tongue out and looked blissful when I stroked his muzzle. Breeding didn't change him at all. He has 2 foals on the ground so far and they are both easy and sweet. I WOULD look at a Storm Cat for an eventer - most definitely.

JerseyHorseLover
Aug. 13, 2007, 05:40 PM
In harness racing there was a triple crown winner named Nevele Pride. He was a trotter. My horse is a grandson of Nevele Pride. Nevele Pride was a nasty son of a gun, and would bite everyone!! My horse is the opposite...very sweet.

summerhorse
Aug. 13, 2007, 05:54 PM
In Tissar was as mean (and perhaps mental) as they come. They eventually built a system of chutes so they didn't have to handle him at all.

Everyone was happier.

Forestry is a very kind sweet stallion. His son Forest Danger not so much. =)

Seeking the Gold is legend for his attitude although he seems to have mellowed a very tiny bit.

Foolish Pleasure was quite nasty as he got older until his last owner bought him and gave him a pasture and mares and he had a big attitude adjustment. Which makes me wonder how much of mean stallions are caused by heredity and how much by handling or bad experiences and frustration from keeping them cooped up in stalls without company?

Essence of Dubai is quite nutty. Like screw loose inside nutty. I know someone who had a filly by him and she wasn't nutty, just mean as a snake. And she wasn't badly handled either, just came out ready to fight. I wonder how she did as a racehorse?!

Gate Dancer was also a fruitcake. Not mean, just crazy!

Of course there was Aly T, Corslew and Festival Of Light who actually tried to kill people. The first two got put down, the last got gelded and someone tried to make a performance horse out of him. No word on how well that worked out...

Private terms was very friendly. Monarchos was quite pleasant too.

Pikepass mean.

rockport Harbor sweet, Holy Bull wants his homage but pleasant personality.

haligator
Aug. 13, 2007, 11:07 PM
Hi All,
A friend of mine stood a stallion named, appropriately enough 'Who's For Dinner.' Unfortunately, he lived up to his name.

River Keen is absolutely downright sweet - acts like a big dog who wants carrots.

I met Mr. Prospector and he was so kind with me - let me kiss his neck and pose with him.

Malibu Moon is a very full of himself stallion but I wouldn't call him nasty - just knows he is special. But, I've never tried to pat him.

Unbridled was pleasant when I was introduced to him.

I've met a lot of stallions but I generally don't pat them as I have a healthy respect for what can happen....

I'm about to buy into a syndicate on a well-known horse. When the papers are signed I'll tell you about it.

Hallie McEvoy
Racing Dreams, LLC

War Admiral
Aug. 13, 2007, 11:13 PM
Foolish Pleasure was quite nasty as he got older until his last owner bought him and gave him a pasture and mares and he had a big attitude adjustment. Which makes me wonder how much of mean stallions are caused by heredity and how much by handling or bad experiences and frustration from keeping them cooped up in stalls without company?

It's an interesting question. I don't breed horses and have little experience with handling stallions, but a trainer friend of mine who *does* stand a TB, and keeps him at least somewhat more naturally than is considered the norm, claims that it makes all the difference in the world. Would be interested to hear comments from others.

dr j
Aug. 14, 2007, 02:51 AM
Does Three Chimmneys even ride the tuff ones like Dynaformer?

I do not think they ride Dynaformer.

He is an SOB.

ivy62
Aug. 14, 2007, 07:52 AM
I met Seeking the Gold and they would not even open his top door so we could really see him, they said he was more then nasty and on one occaission actually killed a dog that went into his turnout!

Point Given also very nasty all he wanted to do was bite....
On the other hand Monarchos was charming and so was Pulpit both came out and played with you and let you pet them and take pics

CherishtheMoment
Aug. 14, 2007, 08:50 AM
Ive got a double bred Mr. Prospector and Danzig mare. she is the sweetest thing around. She is only 5 and nothing bothers her, very laid back and quite a love bug. Although she is a drama queen if she gets hurt or isn't feeling well.

Also, dating myself a bit here but the Broad Brush offspring have been from what I remember very decent and willing.

grits
Aug. 14, 2007, 11:35 AM
Does anybody know anything about Nearco? I've always heard that his presence in a pedigree signaled a hot horse, but what horse doesn't trace to Nearco? The word was to avoid him on both the top and bottom. I had a fabulous mare who was within 5 generations of him on both sides, and she exemplified the reputation.

vineyridge
Aug. 14, 2007, 11:51 AM
This is a broad generalization, but just about every horse, mare or stallion, that Tesio bred and raced had a reputation for being nasty.

Nearco was the sire of Nasrullah, and he has one of the worst reputations around.

DeeThbd
Aug. 14, 2007, 11:59 AM
Does anybody know anything about Nearco? I've always heard that his presence in a pedigree signaled a hot horse, but what horse doesn't trace to Nearco? The word was to avoid him on both the top and bottom. I had a fabulous mare who was within 5 generations of him on both sides, and she exemplified the reputation.

My older gelding has Nearco in his 5th generation top and bottom (Nasrullah and Nearctic)....he is a horse who is loving, intelligent and the best word I can find is passionate...he is very proud, and often when you want something, he expects a good reason for it (yes, he sounds human - and sometimes seems to be!)
Dee

piccolittle
Aug. 14, 2007, 12:04 PM
My gelding has Nearco and Round Table all over his pedigree- he is most definitely not a hot horse, but can be a complete brat. He acts like a pony mostly, will put in a buck and often will bite my pitchfork or brush if I try to do his stall/face. He also bucks when he's fed, and gets very protective of feed, sometimes downright nasty. Trots off with me if he's not lead with a chain, and the most annoying thing is he's so ridiculously playful and such a meddler! He took down our trailer canopy the other week on top of himself and another gelding! Other than that he's a complete sweetheart and I loff him to bits. Interesting to hear what his breeding might have to do with his personality, though :)

ejm
Aug. 14, 2007, 12:20 PM
Point Given also very nasty all he wanted to do was bite....


Interesting - the day I saw him, he was out in the paddock (early winter, before the start of breeding season), and the stallion manager climbed over the fence, walked out to him and led him over by the halter. I had always heard that he was tough on the racetrack, and was not expecting him to be as docile as he was that day.

dunthat
Aug. 14, 2007, 12:35 PM
I have a Storm Cat Grandson, 4 this year and is the quietest horse. He has just started eventing. His nickname in the barn is Grandpa!

Very athletic and smart.

vineyridge
Aug. 14, 2007, 01:22 PM
What was Hail To Reason's reputation? It would seem that at least two of his great sons have not been easy to deal with and have passed that quality on to at least some of their get.

If I were in the TB industry, from what this thread implies, I wouldn't want my horses at Ashmore.

ivy62
Aug. 14, 2007, 01:26 PM
My horses Dad, Candy Stripes, spent most of his time in Arg and was told he was a bit difficult but his father Blushing Groom they said was easy to work around....Soemtimes I wonder if the environment they live in plays a larger role then we will give credit for......

vineyridge
Aug. 14, 2007, 01:55 PM
Here's something to think about:
McDynamo is a Dynaformer son, albeit gelded. Most money ever won by a jump racer in the US. During the offseason, he is foxhunted, so his temperament must be just fine.

Most of the US jump racer trainers do foxhunt their horses in the winter. On the other hand, they aren't breeding stallions.

Of the Roberto Sons, In Tissar, Kris S and Dynaformer have been listed as mean. I've heard the same about Red Ransom. Only Lear Fan is on the kind list. What about Silver Hawk? I just found a son named Robert Le Diable, which would lead to questions.

FrittSkritt
Aug. 15, 2007, 11:06 AM
When I visited Alleged, he had two shanks hanging at his paddock gate because he had to be led by two handlers. I did pat him, however and left with all of my appendages.

Funny, I thought Monty Roberts trained Alleged? Guess his NH stuff didn't stick. :winkgrin:

Texarkana
Aug. 15, 2007, 02:15 PM
Here's something to think about:
McDynamo is a Dynaformer son, albeit gelded. Most money ever won by a jump racer in the US. During the offseason, he is foxhunted, so his temperament must be just fine.


I've also met him, albeit briefly. He seemed to have a good disposition in passing.

I've really been thinking about the Dynaformer's I've met and all in all I can't recall any that inherited daddy's temperament.

Although it's really interesting how the Roberto lines keep popping up again and again on this thread. I didn't expect to see that much of a trend.

Kim
Aug. 15, 2007, 02:30 PM
What was Nashua like? I have a 30-year-old granddaughter and she has always been very feisty (which keeps her going!).

How about War Admiral?

tradewind
Aug. 15, 2007, 05:32 PM
I had always heard that Kris S was a nice horse, so I guess it depends on who you are listening to.

ivy62
Aug. 15, 2007, 07:12 PM
Had heard that War Admiral was difficult to handle. Never taught any manners and was fiesty like his Dad. Man O' War apparently was no easy horse either

pinkdiamondracing
Aug. 15, 2007, 07:53 PM
I am the assistant trrainer in the barn where Slew's Tizzy is and I have to tell you that if all Tiznow's are like him then what a wonderful temprament they all have.. Tizzy loves to be petted,scratched and stretched every day by me and he truly is a wonderful horse to be around and handle
:)

Bluesy
Aug. 15, 2007, 08:12 PM
I work at a place that has at least 5 Wodan (KWPN) babies and they are ALL super friendly, gentle and level headed.

oh bugger never mind - why did I think this was the sport horse forum

tuppysmom
Aug. 16, 2007, 12:38 AM
We had a son of Red Ransom here to train as a pleasure horse. He was quite a nice guy for just being hauled here from the track. Our neighbor has a Silver Hawk that kids ride, he does the hunters on the flat stuff. Maybe they had very very nice dams and got their temperments from them???

Now, Storm Cat.......

Benson
Aug. 16, 2007, 10:09 AM
I have a Storm Cat Grandson, 4 this year and is the quietest horse. He has just started eventing. His nickname in the barn is Grandpa!

Very athletic and smart.


Yep, I event one! Athletic, smart (too smart for his own good sometimes), never met a fence he didn't LOVE! He's a cross country wonder! However, don't think about picking a fight with him, because you will LOSE. He's like a perpetual 2 yr old child. You can get him to do anything you want, but it can't be forced or he will throw a screaming, kicking FIT . Positively ROCKS a jump course, and his flat work is nice enough. Wouldn't want to ride anything else in the world.

He's by Storm of Angels and Branded Bold.

WhiteCamry
Aug. 16, 2007, 10:34 AM
Had heard that War Admiral was difficult to handle. Never taught any manners and was fiesty like his Dad. Man O' War apparently was no easy horse either

Still, I never heard that MoW or WA ever went lock-em-up crazy like Fair Play or Hastings did.

OTOH, Hard Tack was one nasty son of a bitch to the point that no track would allow him any more. I believe he once crippled a groom.

summerhorse
Aug. 16, 2007, 09:20 PM
I had always heard that Kris S was a nice horse, so I guess it depends on who you are listening to.

Maybe he was tougher on the racetrack but I've never heard he was bad as a stallion. In fact the interviews I've read were all saying how nice he was. At least in his later years!

Alleged was not trained by Monty Roberts, they bought him as a baby and sold him (mind blank! as a yearling or 2 year old) and he was fine then although def. not a pushover. He's one of those that got meaner as time went on.

Tiznow, Victory Gallop, Groovey (RIP) and Distorted Humor were all well behaved. We got to pet them all.

Seeking the Gold has quite the reputation but I guess he must respect this guy... (well OK he got cut out of the pic. but he's standing right there within reach!)
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2292463010030219937OqXsbG

VirginiaBred
Aug. 16, 2007, 09:28 PM
Does anyone have any stories about John Henry? Before he was gelded?

I saw him at the KHP and was just struck with the imperious attitude...
he KNOWS is one the greats! :cool:

Unfortunately John Henry isn't doing very well this week, or last. He has been hooked up to an IV as he is very dehydrated and feeling poorly. I saw him several times this week.

VirginiaBred
Aug. 16, 2007, 09:29 PM
Last time I visited Three Chimneys (before SJ retired), I was told that they rode all the stallions that were sound enough, weather permitting. They have a nice fiber jogging track that runs between some of the stallion paddocks.



I was just at Three Chimneys, and they are still riding the majority of the stallions.

VirginiaBred
Aug. 16, 2007, 09:31 PM
I do not think they ride Dynaformer.

He is an SOB.

He was a pussy cat yesterday. They did used to ride him, but no longer. He is twenty-two now.

War Admiral
Aug. 16, 2007, 09:31 PM
Unfortunately John Henry isn't doing very well this week, or last. He has been hooked up to an IV as he is very dehydrated and feeling poorly. I saw him several times this week.

Aww, that's too bad. Someone posted the newsletter on another forum and it sounded like he was doing GREAT!!

Jingles for JH.

VirginiaBred
Aug. 16, 2007, 09:32 PM
Point Given also very nasty all he wanted to do was bite....



No way. He was so calm and laid back. I saw him get a bath and he poised for pictures. Very mannerly.

K~2
Aug. 16, 2007, 09:58 PM
I think some nastiness comes within the breeding season, when a stallion's hormones dictate a lot of their behaviour :D.

That said, my stallion Legal Jousting is a pussy cat. Yes he gets enthusiastic when the breeding season is in full swing, but he's very well behaved. He's by Indian Ridge, out of a Sadlers Wells mare.

grayarabpony
Aug. 16, 2007, 10:59 PM
I have read that Hastings was crazy mean, Fair Play intractable, and Man o'War a firecracker when on the racetrack but much mellower later. His dam was supposed to have a sweet temperment.

That's interesting that Gate Dancer was crazy. I owned a daugher once who I could not stand. A complete idiot. Talentless too. I kept thinking "Can't you jump the fence instead of just running through it? Guess not."

I haven't heard anything about Affirmed being quirky or mean, just very smart.

Alibhai's Alibar
Aug. 17, 2007, 12:08 AM
Anything I've handled by Cryptoclearance has been hot, hot, hot. Good looking but hot.

In my limited experience, I've noticed the same thing. I've known 2 and they were both lovely but very hot. Not bad, just "busy" :winkgrin:

Texarkana
Aug. 17, 2007, 09:20 AM
No way. He was so calm and laid back. I saw him get a bath and he poised for pictures. Very mannerly.

And it's also over 100 degrees and not breeding season. ;)

Point Given was a pisser when he was racing. But I've heard that he's mellowed a little since he's retired to stud.

VirginiaBred
Aug. 17, 2007, 09:26 AM
Okay...........I'll give you that! :)

All of the stallions at Three Chimneys were behaving very well this week, and GLAD to get a bath.

summerhorse
Aug. 17, 2007, 12:33 PM
In my limited experience, I've noticed the same thing. I've known 2 and they were both lovely but very hot. Not bad, just "busy" :winkgrin:

That's funny. We just saw him and the guy said that, he was not mean but very um, energetic. And he was in perpetual motion. Then he'd POSE. LOL, what a ham.

To answer a few posts back when we saw Silver Hawk the guy said he WAS mean.

At Three Chimneys the lady said they didn't ride Point Given anymore because he kept dumping the riders! He wasn't mean though (she made a point of saying), just likes to dump people. Maybe by now they've found someone who can stay on him. She said that he was the only one they didn't ride (and Smarty was there). That was a couple years ago now though. Unless the old guys are unsteady or in pain unsound, they really need the exercise even more than ever to keep them flexible and in shape.

witherbee
Aug. 17, 2007, 07:28 PM
Cure the Blues was a nasty stallion. He would savage his grooms and hurt more than one pretty badly...

Toadie's mom
Aug. 19, 2007, 08:02 PM
I just helped my trainer give away a Tiznow son and he's very sweet and quiet. And, he's beautiful.

elmerandharriet
Aug. 19, 2007, 09:05 PM
i had a strom cat grandson he was out of storm creek and he was pretty good he could not be made to do something or he would have a fit. i noticed with my storm cat he was great around some people and horrible around others he hated men i noticed but loved ladies and i had him for a long time i got him as a 2yr old! but undersaddle he was great just on the ground we had issues he was a big stricker and he kicked out alot but nothing too serious at heart he was a big love bug but he had to have the im a tough man look

Sing Mia Song
Aug. 23, 2007, 01:11 PM
Standouts for being easy: Monarchos, Even the Score, Tiznow (very sweet and animated), Aljabr, Afleet Alex, Marquetry, Rahy, Swain, and yes, Point Given (I even saw him breed and he was a perfect gentleman). Another one surprisingly laid back was Pulpit. His foals may have a screw loose, and he was difficult at the track, but a stallion's life suits him.

Malibu Moon was reportedly "very naughty" when he came to Castleton Lyons, and is still one to watch out for. Runaway Groom was fine as long as he was treated with respect. Same for Slew City Slew and Unbridled's Song. Harlan's Holiday is a card, and loves to play the tongue game with his groom, but he's in charge. FuPeg was extremely calm, but knows he's important and likes to be admired.

Not so good? Smarty Jones was definitely fed up with tourists when I was there, and threatened to kick out a couple times. Repriced's groom called him a turkey under his breath, and the horse was clearly not adored. Seeking the Gold is unpredictable--Claiborne's stallion manager said that he will be fine sometimes and dangerous at others. Dayjur is a cranky old SOB. Victory Gallop is mischevious--not really mean, but like puppy that doesn't know limits. Honor and Glory is a self-savager.

As far as progeny of stallions, I've worked with a bunch of Valley Crossings and Allen's Prospects, and they are tough--as a friend of mine says diplomatically "they take a horseman" to handle them. You just have to be firm with limits. My Gorky Park gelding is easy, but has a bit of a spook, and that is apparently typical of "Dorky Gorkies." I've worked with two by Cahill Road and they were easy and sweet.

Texarkana
Aug. 23, 2007, 02:20 PM
Honor and Glory is a self-savager.


I don't think he's been mentioned yet. Some of my favorite racehorses have been by him. And boy, does he throw some classy looking babies...

I can't say I've seen his self-savaging tendancies inherited by any of his progeny, though.

mighty mite
Aug. 23, 2007, 02:28 PM
I have a Hoist the Flag granddaughter and she is the sweetest mare I have ever known. She had obviously been neglected/abused by her former owner but she is just eating up the love she gets now.

Once when I was at Claiborne and asked to see Danzig, the handler was not very eager to get him because according to the handler, he was so mean. When he went into his pasture, Danzig chased him and tried to bite him. But when Danzig came to the fence and I talked to him softly, he was just a sweetheart. I really think so much is in the way you treat them. I've seen people trying to load their horses in a trailer, trying to force them in. I never intrude but when I'm asked, I take the lead and calmly walk them in on the first try. It works every time.

MyReality
Aug. 23, 2007, 05:47 PM
Funny. I have a halo offspring and he is extremely quiet and respectful. He has always been a mouthy kind of guy, like to chew things but know very well he is not to touch me with his lips or teeth.