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bovon
Jul. 25, 2007, 04:28 PM
This may be more of a vent than anything else but it's really bumming me out. For whatever reason the person I've been taking lessons with has decided to NOT return Phone my calls. She did respond to one email to say "thanks for the check but she would not be available to give me a lesson on the date I requested". I've called and emailed her a few more times to find out when she would be available but so for have heard nothing!! It's been over a week and she has never not returned calls or emails before. I know she got upset because she came to ride for me while I was on vacation a few weeks back and twice the horses we're not in there stalls ready for her and there was some confusion but I paid her anyway because she did come out and spend time trying to "catch' the horse even if she didn't ride . (my bad) So I'm bummed because I really was learning from her and making progress. Am I getting the brush off here. I know she's going on vacation later this week but it's still not like her to not respond. Could the situation involving the horses not being ready for her cause her to act this way. If so, isn't that a bit ridiculous.
. I feel like I've been pink slipped even though I'm the one signing the checks.. :no:

Catersun
Jul. 25, 2007, 04:35 PM
hmm...

If I were coming out to ride someone's horse and they were out twice, I'd be wondering if they were taking my time seriously.

I am not good about returning calls. it takes me usually two days to return calls. Email is far the best way to contact me. So Maybe is there a better way to try and contact her?

Otherwise, yea.. you might be getting brushed off. Remember, horsie pro's aren't usually showing up for a just a check. If they aren't riding and making progress with a horse, THen they aren't getting the word out that a horse is progressing with them. Word of Mouth is big. If you aren't being proactive then you are wasting time. At least that is how I feel.

Sorry you are having a time of it... maybe go visit and bring something tasty?? Put forth some exra effort to let them know you aren't wasting their time.

Rhiannonjk
Jul. 25, 2007, 04:39 PM
But the OP said she was on vacation when the horses weren't ready - would you punish a client if the barn they were at didn't follow her instructions while gone?

slc2
Jul. 25, 2007, 04:43 PM
Why don't you wait a while and call her back when she's more likely to answer the phone. she may be busy or she may have had it with the arrangement. not sure i'd blame her.

Coreene
Jul. 25, 2007, 04:43 PM
She's just not that into you.

hitchinmygetalong
Jul. 25, 2007, 04:47 PM
Call her back. Leave a message along the lines of "I am worried that you no longer want me as a client. As a professional courtesy, could you please at least let me know one way or the other?"

The worst she can do is not return your call, which I would consider highly unprofessional and that would be enough for ME to drop HER.

bovon
Jul. 25, 2007, 04:49 PM
But the OP said she was on vacation when the horses weren't ready - would you punish a client if the barn they were at didn't follow her instructions while gone?

the barn in question is actually my own private backyard facility but the guy I had taking care of the horses for me in my abscense had mistakenly let them out once when they were supposed to be in and the other time I messed up and told him to keep the horses out because I forgot she was coming ( remember I was on vacation ) and I called and apologized to her for that and I thought everything was fine..mmm

Elegante E
Jul. 25, 2007, 05:11 PM
Sounds like she's giving you a bit of attitude. Could be that she's busy getting ready for her vacation and that she isn't thinking past it. If you know the dates she's gone, I'd wait till she's back and try again. If she's still brushing you off, then accept it and move on.

Robyn
Jul. 25, 2007, 05:17 PM
She's just not that into you.
:D:D:D

f4leggin
Jul. 25, 2007, 05:18 PM
Or... could be she has had a problem and is not available to anyone. I would try and find out more info - ie: if she is OK.

Jill

Dixon
Jul. 25, 2007, 06:35 PM
Is she giving you the brush off? Yes. Should you try to remedy the situation? Depends on how much you need her input, as opposed to finding someone else. I can't blame her for thinking her time is better spent elsewhere. But if she's your only option for training help (unlikely), then make amends along the lines others are suggesting.

Question: Was the check you sent her for PAST training, or FUTURE training? If future, then she certainly does need to agree to schedule some more with you, to earn that pay. But if you're paid up on what she's done so far, it sounds like she doesn't find a future training relationship to be worth her while. Don't take it personally -- she's in a business where her time equals money and opportunity.


But the OP said she was on vacation when the horses weren't ready - would you punish a client if the barn they were at didn't follow her instructions while gone?

Yes, though "punishment" is the wrong word. I'd reevaluate the time I spend on that client if client forgets that I'm coming and forgets to instruct staff or ensure staff understands the schedule.

Alagirl
Jul. 25, 2007, 06:47 PM
Is she giving you the brush off? Yes. Should you try to remedy the situation? Depends on how much you need her input, as opposed to finding someone else. I can't blame her for thinking her time is better spent elsewhere. But if she's your only option for training help (unlikely), then make amends along the lines others are suggesting.

Question: Was the check you sent her for PAST training, or FUTURE training? If future, then she certainly does need to agree to schedule some more with you, to earn that pay. But if you're paid up on what she's done so far, it sounds like she doesn't find a future training relationship to be worth her while. Don't take it personally -- she's in a business where her time equals money and opportunity.



Yes, though "punishment" is the wrong word. I'd reevaluate the time I spend on that client if client forgets that I'm coming and forgets to instruct staff or ensure staff understands the schedule.


How much better can it get to be payed for not working?!

Anyhow, a week is a long time to return calls or emails. I like the idea of asking point blank, because the OP has better things to do than playing phone tag (with an unresponsive partner at that!!)

The OP messed up on the rides, but paid for them... big deal. But not getting someone to answer the phone or returning message and emails?! And there she calls herself a professional! tsktsktsk.....

twnkltoz
Jul. 25, 2007, 06:58 PM
How much better can it get to be payed for not working?!



From the sounds of it, she didn't get paid for nothing. She got paid for driving out there and trying to catch horses that wouldn't be caught. As a dance instructor, I had a client who would continually either call at the last minute to cancel (too late to schedule someone else or make new plans) or not even call--just not show up. He would pay for it which is fine, but that didn't save me the annoyance of putting up with rush hour traffic to get to the studio to teach him, giving up an hour that I could have spent with my family or a student who takes their dancing seriously, etc. It's a lack of respect issue (not saying that was the case with the OP, but repeated offenses might appear that way). I was the second teacher that I know of to drop him.

OP, you got some excellent suggestions here. Apologize again for the mishap, assure her it won't happen again, and ask her if she'd be willing to work with you again. The worst that can happen is that she'll not answer again!

bovon
Jul. 25, 2007, 07:10 PM
Is she giving you the brush off? Yes. Should you try to remedy the situation? Depends on how much you need her input, as opposed to finding someone else. I can't blame her for thinking her time is better spent elsewhere. But if she's your only option for training help (unlikely), then make amends along the lines others are suggesting.

Question: Was the check you sent her for PAST training, or FUTURE training? If future, then she certainly does need to agree to schedule some more with you, to earn that pay. But if you're paid up on what she's done so far, it sounds like she doesn't find a future training relationship to be worth her while. Don't take it personally -- she's in a business where her time equals money and opportunity.
Yes, though "punishment" is the wrong word. I'd reevaluate the time I spend on that client if client forgets that I'm coming and forgets to instruct staff or ensure staff understands the schedule.


I have apologized for the mixing up of scheduels,etc. Geez it's not like I killed someone ?LOL

Perhaps trainers should also recognize the "future" value of a client. I love taking lessons and I will also pay for extra training while I'm learning. If I find a tainer who's good , I'll stick with that person for who knows how long..it could be years. Why would any trainer want to threaten that relationship by being inflexible and uncooperative. A good one will try to make it work and not run off in a huff the first time the world doesn't turn according to their personal likes. Word of mouth is a big thing in this business. Yes I am human and god forbid I actually "forget" something or make a mistake. Trainers come and go..none of them are Gods but no trainer will be in business without clients.. All clients big and small. I pay on time..show up for lessons ready to go and last time I checked I was the one forking over the $$$$$. I like to give my business to someone who wants to help me instead of acting like "they're doing ME a favor" by showing up. This is not directed at any one individual just in general. ok...I hope I haven'' stirred up a can of worms here, that is not my intention at all.

~Freedom~
Jul. 25, 2007, 08:29 PM
it's still not like her to not respond.

Unprofessional.

AllWeatherGal
Jul. 25, 2007, 08:30 PM
I have apologized for the mixing up of scheduels,etc. Geez it's not like I killed someone ?LOL

Perhaps trainers should also recognize the "future" value of a client. I love taking lessons and I will also pay for extra training while I'm learning. If I find a tainer who's good , I'll stick with that person for who knows how long..it could be years. Why would any trainer want to threaten that relationship by being inflexible and uncooperative. A good one will try to make it work and not run off in a huff the first time the world doesn't turn according to their personal likes. Word of mouth is a big thing in this business. Yes I am human and god forbid I actually "forget" something or make a mistake. Trainers come and go..none of them are Gods but no trainer will be in business without clients.. All clients big and small. I pay on time..show up for lessons ready to go and last time I checked I was the one forking over the $$$$$. I like to give my business to someone who wants to help me instead of acting like "they're doing ME a favor" by showing up. This is not directed at any one individual just in general. ok...I hope I haven'' stirred up a can of worms here, that is not my intention at all.

It seems like your mind is made up ... find someone else who has the same values and concerns that you do.

Bogey2
Jul. 25, 2007, 08:52 PM
She's just not that into you.
:lol::lol::lol:

slc2
Jul. 25, 2007, 09:21 PM
You're getting all mad, and the woman might just be busy. Or her mother died. Or she broke her leg. Or she didn't get your message. Ever think of that?

Once again. Give it some time, call her back, ask her if she wants to come out again. Try not to sound too miffed yourself :)

It's very hard to get people to come out to 'my backyard facility'. If they can get work closer to home, especially with gas at 3 and a half bucks, they are going to take it. The more time they spend driving between places, the more time and the more money they lose. Alot of people I have talked to have changed their lesson route since gas prices jumped up. Most trainers now charge mileage if they have to drive to another barn. Even if they get mileage, they are still losing that time. If the lessons were all at one barn, she'd teach back to back, and be able to fit in twice as many lessons, and get home in time to actually have her husband see her, and not have her own dog bark at her when she drives in because he can't remember who the hell she is.

Teaching riding, is, after all, a JOB. People have bills to pay.

Example. Get up at 7 am, start driving. Get to your barn, ride your horses. Drive to your first lesson. 30 minutes. 30 minutes of d****** around at barn 1 while student tacks up, student is running late, gee, sorry. You still have to teach for an hour. You start teaching at 10:30 instead of 10. You teach an hour. Student wants to chit chat after. Yu have to cut her off. You are still late to your next lesson, even though you drive like a maniac. Your student 2 is pissed that you are late, and leaves. YOu lose that lesson, but you have already driven there. You drive to your next lesson, and are supposed to ride two horses for someone who's out of town. The horses aren't in. YOu chase them around for a while, and about then, you've had it.

Kathy Johnson
Jul. 25, 2007, 09:45 PM
I was going to not answer this post, but then I realized I might be snubbing you :) I kind of agree not to make a mountain out of a molehill. Something crazy is probably going on in her life. I'd let it ride until after vacation then you'll know soon enough if she's giving you the slip.

AnotherRound
Jul. 25, 2007, 09:57 PM
She might be snubbingyou, but then she might not, either, just going into vacation mode and letting you slide.

Here is what I would do.

Wait until she is back from vacation. Only just back, though. Email her, and begin with an apology about the horses and your vaction. Tell her, briefly, how invested you are in what she has to teach you and your horses, in particular, and even describe some of the things you anticipate learning with her, based on what you have already started. Ask her if she is willing to continue with you as a student, and give her some base times and dates you would like to commit to with her. Give her, say five, the first one coming up within a week of your note to her, and ask her to get back to you.

Then, make some preliminatry calls to line up your second in line choice for a trainer. you may or may not hear from her. If you do, great. If not,go with your new idea for a trainer. Move on, learn lesson, and feel good, at least you apologized and did as well by her as you could, at the end.

She may rally to your positive attitude.

Good luck, let us know! I'd like to hear...

pvcjumper
Jul. 26, 2007, 05:06 PM
She runs a business, and is paid to be a "professional." If she doesn't have time to talk (because lets face it, sometimes personal lives interfere with work, and horses dont exactly adhere to a 9-5pm type schedule) she could easily send a blanket email to all her clients covering the topic. I am not even a professional, but I ride horses for other people and I make sure to send emails or call regarding when I will be away, any issues with their horses, if I will be late to meet someone or if I am having someones feet done, etc.

Horses, lessons, training, managing a barn all take a lot of time and hard work, but this is a business and should be treated as such. I won't tell you how many potential trainers I crossed off my list because of a lack of returned calls when I first started looking for a trainer. Then I asked others about trainers, got good and bad references so i knew who to go to and who to stay away from. Even though I was only looking for 1 or two lessons a MONTH, i expected good potential client service. Guess what, the person i picked i decided after ride #1 that i would do WEEKLY lessons with her (not just the 1 lesson every three weeks i had planned) because of professionalism and good presentation.

Whether or not she returns your call, realize that you are the client...if you arent happy and your dollars arent buying what you want, then you too have the power to make a choice. You are not just the current monthly revenue that you provide to her, you are also marketing for her, you are potential future revenue for finding a horse for you, boarding a horse for you, putting a horse in training, whatever. I wouldnt be very pleased if I were not treated like a good customer/client. I pay my bills, i am on time, i do my work inbetween and I give good notice if i ever have to cancel. If you are a good client and are not being treated as one, after having given the benefit of the doubt and trying to contact your trainer, I'd walk the other way. In the mean time you are missing potential lessons, training, whatever...because you are sitting on your hands while you wait.

pvcjumper
Jul. 26, 2007, 05:19 PM
Example. Get up at 7 am, start driving. Get to your barn, ride your horses. Drive to your first lesson. 30 minutes. 30 minutes of d****** around at barn 1 while student tacks up, student is running late, gee, sorry. You still have to teach for an hour. You start teaching at 10:30 instead of 10. You teach an hour. Student wants to chit chat after. Yu have to cut her off. You are still late to your next lesson, even though you drive like a maniac. Your student 2 is pissed that you are late, and leaves. YOu lose that lesson, but you have already driven there. You drive to your next lesson, and are supposed to ride two horses for someone who's out of town. The horses aren't in. YOu chase them around for a while, and about then, you've had it.


Easy solution to this...I like my trainers approach that she issued in a newsletter or something. Lessons start on time, this doesnt mean get to the barn by this time, it means be READY by this time. i.e. tacked up, in the arena, and maybe warmed up but i dont remember if that was included. And it makes good sense to me. I am paying her for a specific block of time. She has every right to expect me to be ontime and READY to start and end roughly on time. If the lesson in front of me runs late, I exect that extra time would most likely be tacked onto the end of my lesson since I am paying for an hour, etc. But thats not a great scenario since then the trainer has to push back every other lesson too.

So rather than making trainers bite the bullet and potentially lose money because a client is late, etc, the trainer should simply end on time, and the rider should understand that its their own fault for shortening their own lesson. I have seen it firsthand where someone was roughly 40 minutes late to their hour lesson, and the trainer pretty much said why dont you keep your money because you only have 20 minutes left and my next lesson is at 11:00. Yes this trainer lost out on money, but he made his point I think.

sarapony
Jul. 26, 2007, 05:35 PM
I know this isn't really the OP's point, but to follow on what PVC said.

I have always assumed that when I have a lesson time, that the lesson starts AT that time. Meaning I am on a clean and tacked horse with helmet in place before that time. If I had asked a trainer to come ride my horse for me while I was present, I would have the horse tacked and waiting when the trainer arrived and take the horse from the trainer when she dismounted and I would cool off and put away my horse. If I made arrangements for a trainer to ride in my absence, I would let the trainer know that I would not be there and I would expect to pay a grooming fee.

bovon
Jul. 26, 2007, 05:36 PM
This may be more of a vent than anything else but it's really bumming me out. For whatever reason the person I've been taking lessons with has decided to NOT return Phone my calls. She did respond to one email to say "thanks for the check but she would not be available to give me a lesson on the date I requested". I've called and emailed her a few more times to find out when she would be available but so for have heard nothing!! It's been over a week and she has never not returned calls or emails before. I know she got upset because she came to ride for me while I was on vacation a few weeks back and twice the horses we're not in there stalls ready for her and there was some confusion but I paid her anyway because she did come out and spend time trying to "catch' the horse even if she didn't ride . (my bad) So I'm bummed because I really was learning from her and making progress. Am I getting the brush off here. I know she's going on vacation later this week but it's still not like her to not respond. Could the situation involving the horses not being ready for her cause her to act this way. If so, isn't that a bit ridiculous.
. I feel like I've been pink slipped even though I'm the one signing the checks.. :no:


Ok trainer has finally contacted me and "fired" me by email. However I did send her an email stating ways that I think we could make the situation work. Either she'll agree or she won't but I have never been in this situation in my life..... someone who does NOT want my $$$$. Apparently she thinks I'm impatient w/myself and my horse and she doesn't think we're a good trainer/student match. ..whatever.. I feel like I'm breaking upwith someone...how stupid is that ??!!:confused:

Horsepower
Jul. 26, 2007, 05:47 PM
Forget her. There are plenty of fish (trainers) in the sea. If she was dissatified for all those stated reasons, it will never work out. Clearly, there was a personality conflict you didn't know about.

Brady'smom
Jul. 26, 2007, 06:12 PM
It's not you, it's her....


:lol::lol: :(:(

Nothin worse than feeling like we're dumped.

Don't worry, in a month or so, this won't bother you because you'll have started with someone else. Time heals all wounds.

Elegante E
Jul. 26, 2007, 06:21 PM
Onward and upward! Definitely move on. It's like friendship- can't be onesided. Also, if she doesn't have the intelligence or courtesy to discuss your training with you then she isn't a worth your $$$$$. Seriously, if she thought you were pushing too hard, then as a trainer that's her job to inform you. Obviously, she doesn't understand what teaching is really about.

Take something from this. Remember to open discussions with your new trainer, be pro active about the training and let her/him know you want their advice and will listen (or not, depending on how it goes).

Good luck!

JSwan
Jul. 26, 2007, 09:47 PM
You know - sometimes it's just not a good match. Doesn't mean you're a bad student/rider, or that she's a bad instructor.

Better to find an instructor that's a good match, than try and force this one.

It will only end up in frustration for both of you.

Alagirl
Jul. 26, 2007, 11:11 PM
I just find it remarkable how much leeway a horse 'professional' is given when we get thoroughly ticked to be on hold for a couple of minutes talking to a clerk at a store who actually knows what we want and saving us a trip to said store...but a week's delay is fine and dandy in the riding world....:lol:

Sad day... sad indeed! :winkgrin::cool:

fish
Jul. 27, 2007, 09:15 AM
Ok trainer has finally contacted me and "fired" me by email. However I did send her an email stating ways that I think we could make the situation work. Either she'll agree or she won't but I have never been in this situation in my life..... someone who does NOT want my $$$$. Apparently she thinks I'm impatient w/myself and my horse and she doesn't think we're a good trainer/student match. ..whatever.. I feel like I'm breaking upwith someone...how stupid is that ??!!:confused:

I don't think it's stupid. I think it IS like breaking up, especially when you feel happy and committed to a relationship and want it to go on when the other party doesn't.

Before you start with a new trainer, however, I would strongly suggest that you try to modify your views about that $$$$-- or find a trainer who shares them. I can honestly say that most people I know in the business went into it because of the pleasure they derive from helping others improve their relationships with their horses, and can assure you that the time any of my clients start saying things like "I'm the customer, and I PAY YOU," is the time I ask them to look for someone else because we are definitely NOT a good match!

swgarasu
Jul. 27, 2007, 12:03 PM
I don't think it's stupid. I think it IS like breaking up, especially when you feel happy and committed to a relationship and want it to go on when the other party doesn't.

Before you start with a new trainer, however, I would strongly suggest that you try to modify your views about that $$$$-- or find a trainer who shares them. I can honestly say that most people I know in the business went into it because of the pleasure they derive from helping others improve their relationships with their horses, and can assure you that the time any of my clients start saying things like "I'm the customer, and I PAY YOU," is the time I ask them to look for someone else because we are definitely NOT a good match!

This is really an interesting statement, and I think it shows where a mix of professionalism and friendship can make for a very enjoyable, or a very frustrating experience.
In some ways, if all instructors were completely professional, and had to make a living doing what they do, it would likely be a matter of, "I get paid for it, I don't have to love every minute, but I've gotta eat, so I'll do it." The trainer might not be your friend, but they would probably provide you with the instruction and do so in a professional and polite manner (customer service) unless you were abusive, at which point they cut you off.
I think many equine pros come from money or have a wealthy spouse, and so they have the flexibility that most people in most jobs do not, and as a result the professionalism and tolerance isn't there as much-- it doesn't have to be. I see it other places too- instruction in most leisure activities seems to follow this pattern.
On the other hand, I've been good friends with most of my trainers and really enjoyed it- they were generous and kind and thoughtful and we had a good time together. But if there's an emotional disagreement in this kind of relationship, the professional relationship and the frienship both usually fall apart, and both people lose out (recently happend to a friend of mine and his martial arts teacher).

slc2
Jul. 27, 2007, 01:40 PM
and maybe you ARE too impatient!!!

since about 80% of peopel ARE too impatient, it's a fair possibility she's right!

why if a trainer says something like that, is she always wrong on this bulletin board? WHY would a trainer turn down work????

maybe the trainer had a heck of a good point, and maybe the student should listen.

and maybe, if the trainer does agree to work with you again, you should ask her how you need to change.

and maybe, if you work with anyone else, you will keep getting the same comment from them as from this one, over and over.

snbess
Jul. 27, 2007, 01:49 PM
And maybe, had the trainer sat the student down and had a mature conversation with her about it, they could have worked it out. It doesn't sound like that happened. It sounds like the trainer was frustrated, but the student didn't know why. And the trainer fired the student without telling the student or discussing what needed to change. Maybe not, but that's how it sounds. Two sides to every situation, for sure.

Sandra

slc2
Jul. 27, 2007, 04:27 PM
your impatience affects your horse and everyone around you, most of all, the instructor. it is NOT 'just your problem'. it becomes EVERYONE's problem.

the only way one gets better is by listening to other people. if you selected the trainer wisely, she has something important to teach you, and it's worth listening to, and you'll benefit from listening to her. maybe you selected unwisely and she has no idea about anyything and has nothing to teach you. i suppose that's possible too. but there must be some reason you chose her in the first place, AND some reason you contacted her saying you still want to work with her....

riding dressage, in a way, is about as naked and exposed and flawed as a human being ever gets to be in front of anyone else, and the trainer or instructor is the one who gets to see the rider, in all his glory, the good, the bad and the ugly - his tears, his confusion, his fears, his frustration, and at times, his misplaced emotions.

when one takes dressage, there are many things about one that come under the magnifying glass. in a way, it's like creating art, and you're drawing on a canvas with your personality, and the result is your horse and how he goes. what happens then becomes extremely personal and for many people, a source of very intense emotions.

it can be a great experience for the person who is comfortable with change and growth. but it is rarely without mistakes, without pain, without change, or without embarrassment.

Horsepower
Jul. 27, 2007, 05:03 PM
I don't know about the others, but I wasn't implying that what the trainer said was untrue (from the trainer's standpoint). Other trainers might like that the student was anxious to push forward. Another trainer might not find this too pushy but someone who is motivated. It is all a point of view. I don't think it is a matter of who was right or wrong. There is no right or wrong when it doesn't work. The bottom line is that it wasn't working. The trainer was unhappy. Time for the student to move on and find a trainer who is a better match.

Speaking of which, sometimes a trainer is a good match for a long time and then the student's goals change or the student "outgrows" the trainer and it is time to move on. I know this has happened to me and I have seen others it happens to. Often I have seen questions on this board about how to tell a trainer you want to move on or asking the board whether it is time to move on. There is always the human as well as training element to these relationships. The bottom line is that it is important for both the trainer and student to be happy. Then it is the best arrangement.

mp
Jul. 27, 2007, 05:29 PM
riding dressage, in a way, is about as naked and exposed and flawed as a human being ever gets to be in front of anyone else.... the good, the bad and the ugly - his tears, his confusion, his fears, his frustration, and at times, his misplaced emotions.

when one takes dressage, there are many things about one that come under the magnifying glass....

I think you've got riding dressage confused with getting a colonoscopy.

grayarabpony
Jul. 27, 2007, 05:33 PM
I think you've got riding dressage confused with getting a colonoscopy.

:lol:

bovon
Jul. 27, 2007, 05:50 PM
I think you've got riding dressage confused with getting a colonoscopy.


:lol::lol::lol:

now that S**t's funny!!!! PUN intended!!

RHdobes563
Jul. 27, 2007, 06:01 PM
I think you've got riding dressage confused with getting a colonoscopy.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dixon
Jul. 27, 2007, 06:17 PM
The colonoscopy comment is the best ever!


. . . It sounds like the trainer was frustrated, but the student didn't know why. And the trainer fired the student without telling the student or discussing what needed to change.

Student knew why: Trainer didn't appreciate client's forgetting that trainer was coming to ride the horse, and forgetting to ensure horse was brought in, twice. No mystery why trainer fired student.

There's no mystery about trainer's "impatience" comment, either. It's likely RELATED to those incidents: You want to make progress but you left town without ensuring your horse would receive training while you were gone. So neither you nor your horse could possibly have made any progress during that period.

bovon
Jul. 27, 2007, 06:42 PM
The colonoscopy comment is the best ever!



Student knew why: Trainer didn't appreciate client's forgetting that trainer was coming to ride the horse, and forgetting to ensure horse was brought in, twice. No mystery why trainer fired student.

There's no mystery about trainer's "impatience" comment, either. It's likely RELATED to those incidents: You want to make progress but you left town without ensuring your horse would receive training while you were gone. So neither you nor your horse could possibly have made any progress during that period.

So now you're ASSUMING I knew why..have you jumped inside my head??Are you a mind-reader?? GOD FORBID a student makes a mistake or two here or there..".Trainer isn't without fault(things were done in my abscense without my approval (horses put in stalls and left w/out hay and water!!!!) .... let's just say thinking about it again has me thinking I'm better off with how it all ended.

goeslikestink
Jul. 27, 2007, 07:07 PM
dont chase - simple when shes stuck for a bit of cash
says it all really you choose

Elegante E
Jul. 27, 2007, 07:14 PM
OP - just ignore Dixon. Seems she read that colonoscopy comment and ran out to get one.

bird4416
Jul. 27, 2007, 07:26 PM
riding dressage, in a way, is about as naked and exposed and flawed as a human being ever gets to be in front of anyone else, and the trainer or instructor is the one who gets to see the rider, in all his glory, the good, the bad and the ugly - his tears, his confusion, his fears, his frustration, and at times, his misplaced emotions.


Me thinks you take this stuff much too seriously. The only time I felt naked and exposed was when my breeches ripped.

~Freedom~
Jul. 27, 2007, 10:10 PM
I think you've got riding dressage confused with getting a colonoscopy.

What is a colonoscopy?

Xerintha
Jul. 27, 2007, 10:17 PM
What is a colonoscopy?

Oh lord I'm still giggling over the colonoscopy post!

And Freedom can't post for 4 days now since he/she used up their one word per post quota in one post. ;)

shaft0463
Jul. 27, 2007, 11:21 PM
What is a colonoscopy?

thats one of those things where if you have to ask, you DONT want to know!

im sorry youre feeling dumped. ive never been "fired" from a trainer as ive yet to live in one place long enough TO be fired (except in the case of firing an instructor because we didnt mesh and i got sick of being called a bad rider, which i am not). but ive certainly been dumped by enough men recently! its certainly not a good feeling :no:

but maybe post what area you live in, and we can help you find a new and better trainer? the best trainers i have had, i have come upon quite by accident. literally in one case!

dray
Jul. 27, 2007, 11:56 PM
I feel for you. You might live in a land of prima donnas and she might be a the current leader in the club house.

She got paid whether things where as she deemed approproate or not. Let it go.

You'll progress just fine without her haughty attitude and you'll find another trainer. You made honest mistakes and it sounds like you paid in money and some heart ache and stress over it all.

Just go out to your barn and ride every stride. Maybe review some of your books or videos for exercises and take your time interviewing your next coach. Alo, no hore has ever truely suffered from a week off work if you aren't training for some major whing ding. jmho

LET IT GO.

She sounds like a pompous jerk.

Donna Ray
Carson Farm

slc2
Jul. 28, 2007, 10:57 AM
a colonoscopy is not exactly a joke to a person my age.

The colonoscopy threat, as well as the insults, is for anyone who doesn't agree, sight unseen, that the trainer is always wrong, a pompous jerk, etc. For anyone who, after 40 years of watching students interact with riding instructors, who doesn't believe that the instructor is ALWAYS at fault, in EVERY CASE, without question and that the possibility, even the most remote one, that the riding instructor is NOT entirely, completely at fault when anything goes wrong.

and you don't think anyone in dressage takes their performance a little too emotionally? you believe that?

egontoast
Jul. 28, 2007, 12:55 PM
The colonoscopy threat, as well as the insults, is for anyone who doesn't agree, sight unseen, that the trainer is always wrong, a pompous jerk, etc. For anyone who, after 40 years of watching students interact with riding instructors, who doesn't believe that the instructor is ALWAYS at fault, in EVERY CASE, without question and that the possibility, even the most remote one, that the riding instructor is NOT entirely, completely at fault when anything goes wrong.

and you don't think anyone in dressage takes their performance a little too emotionally? you believe that?


Some people obviously take themselves and their hallowed internet advice a little too seriously. I think the colonscopy comment was in realtion to the flowery nakedness comment and not because you disagree. Never let go of your persecution complex, though, you NEED it.


That said , I don't blame a coach for dumping someone who wastes their time and then thinks it's all Ok if they pay them for nothing. That's insulting. A good coach will just drop people, as politely as possible, if they are wasting their time and think it's all about money. My coach, who is battling cancer quietly, would likely dump someone who got them out to their farm twice only to find the horses weren't in for her. It shows a certain lack of respect .Once, maybe. Twice, see ya. Lots of other people out there who value her time more.

fish
Jul. 28, 2007, 01:47 PM
[QUOTE=egontoast;2590046
That said , I don't blame a coach for dumping someone who wastes their time and then thinks it's all Ok if they pay them for nothing. That's insulting. A good coach will just drop people, as politely as possible, if they are wasting their time and think it's all about money. My coach, who is battling cancer quietly, would likely dump someone who got them out to their farm twice only to find the horses weren't in for her. It shows a certain lack of respect .Once, maybe. Twice, see ya. Lots of other people out there who value her time more.[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much for writing this. I have a student I like very much who keeps cancelling at the last moment, and wants to make it ok by "paying for nothing." I tell him we need to find another solution because I want to do my job, not take welfare! I want the satisfaction of seeing him and his horse make progress, which is difficult to accomplish without some semblance of steady work.

Gayla
Jul. 28, 2007, 01:54 PM
Here is my first piece of advice...be open to feedback. Maybe you are impatient. Take it and use it. Next, I would like to tell you about my last barn. I leased a mare that was the nicest horse I have ever had the pleasure to sit on. The barn owner hated me. I have no idea why. I would arrive and she would continue to mow the lawn without even a glance at me. There are other examples, but whatever. But, she kept me around for "the check". Let me tell you it is a blessing to know as soon as possible that she didn't want to work with you. I finally ended the relationship at that barn but it broke my heart to leave the mare. I hope I will find another horse as good as her.
As to the trainer being angry about catching the horses. I wouldn't want anyone training my horses that can't catch 2 horses and it not be that big of a deal. My god, you were on vacation. She just didn't like you that much and this is something that we all have to live with.

Gayla
Jul. 28, 2007, 01:57 PM
Thank you very much for writing this. I have a student I like very much who keeps cancelling at the last moment, and wants to make it ok by "paying for nothing." I tell him we need to find another solution because I want to do my job, not take welfare! I want the satisfaction of seeing him and his horse make progress, which is difficult to accomplish without some semblance of steady work.

See, I think this is ridiculous. Maybe he has a really tight schedule. Maybe he works really hard at his job too. I think that your response is emotional and unprofessional. If he pays what's the problem?

CenterlineGirl2
Jul. 28, 2007, 02:03 PM
I'm thinking maybe your trainer was frustrated with you for personal reasons and then read this thread and said "that's it!"
just a thought!

egontoast
Jul. 28, 2007, 02:27 PM
Fish, I know exactly what you mean. I saw this play out at my barn. The person who always always always cancelled at the last minute, who always kept the trainer waiting while she tacked up, who thought her time was more valuable than the trainer's time and 'oh well, I'm paying her".

This trainer likes to see people progress and does not want to waste a half hour waiting for the person to get ready for a (then) half hour lesson.

A waste of her time and effort.

So Miss Tardiness Oh so Casual Never on her Horse when the Lesson is Supposed to Start (NOT ONCE) got 'fired'. Very politely, though. When cutbacks came for health reasons she was the first to go. Oh well, she can pay someone else to chat with her for a half hour while she gets ready for a half hour lesson.:yes:


Who was the prima donna? Not the trainer.

nwrider
Jul. 28, 2007, 02:59 PM
I took lessons at a barn on one of their school horses for about two years. When the horse I usually rode was sold they told me they didn't have a horse for me to ride anymore. I called them again about six months later to see if they had another horse and they did not return any of my three calls. I just find that tacky. Are they that chicken that they can't even call me to tell me the real reason they don't want me as a client.

The owner was always really friendly and would suck up to the clients that had their horses there in training (at over $1,000 per month). For us that took lessons on the school horses she barely gave the time of day. Now that I have my yearling, you think I would consider having him trained there? No way. Although I am sure she would be happy to return my calls and be my sweet friend when my horse is ready to go and needs a trainer. Beeyotch.

Gayla
Jul. 28, 2007, 02:59 PM
Fish, I know exactly what you mean. I saw this play out at my barn. The person who always always always cancelled at the last minute, who always kept the trainer waiting while she tacked up, who thought her time was more valuable than the trainer's time and 'oh well, I'm paying her".

This trainer likes to see people progress and does not want to waste a half hour waiting for the person to get ready for a (then) half hour lesson.

A waste of her time and effort.

So Miss Tardiness Oh so Casual Never on her Horse when the Lesson is Supposed to Start (NOT ONCE) got 'fired'. Very politely, though. When cutbacks came for health reasons she was the first to go. Oh well, she can pay someone else to chat with her for a half hour while she gets ready for a half hour lesson.:yes:


Who was the prima donna? Not the trainer.
This kind of treatment to anyone is just rude. Friends or professional relationships. Totally justified to let her go. I don't think the OP's trainer was unjustified in letting her go. If that is what she wanted to do. She gets to choose who she trains. It is for the best if she didn't want to work with her. :yes:

shaft0463
Jul. 28, 2007, 03:00 PM
ive been on the other side of this. i had a trainer who use to no-show for my lessons without so much as a phone call. when i started riding with her, i always gave her notice the week before if i wouldnt be able to make my next lesson because i would be out of town or some other genuine conflict. i worked hard during my lessons (to my knowledge anyway, and i was never told otherwise). i was always on-time initially, then after several months of her consistently running 15 or so minutes late, and me having to stand around the ring on my horse, i started showing up when i knew my lesson would actually start. she would sometimes put me off by 45 minutes or an hour because one of her training students wanted a lesson at the last minute. because i wasnt on full training board (which i told her at the initial phone call i could not afford), i was treated as less of a student. i wanted to go to some schooling shows, maybe one or two rated shows, and was told flat-out that she didnt take students to shows because it was a waste of her time to have them compete their own horses.

i continued to deal with it for a while because i valued what i was being taught, but eventually circumstances made it all too easy for me to leave her.

egontoast
Jul. 28, 2007, 03:09 PM
i had a trainer who use to no-show for my lessons without so much as a phone call.

Sure, but what does that have to do with the OP's situation?

She wondered if the fact that her horses had not been brought in as expected,for the trainer to ride TWICE may have had anything to do with her being 'fired'. She thought that since she paid her, it should be OK. That's the issue.

~Freedom~
Jul. 28, 2007, 03:14 PM
Oh lord I'm still giggling over the colonoscopy post!

I looked it up.


And Freedom can't post for 4 days now since he used up their one word per post quota in one post. ;)


I guess.

egontoast
Jul. 28, 2007, 03:21 PM
Finding freedom has nothing to lose. Just some give up, feeling it is a remarkable exercise of the failed leading the failed.... into failure.


Freedom's just another word for nothin left to lose

Nothin ain't worth nothin but it's free

K.K, F.F- Me and Bobby McGee

fish
Jul. 28, 2007, 03:56 PM
See, I think this is ridiculous. Maybe he has a really tight schedule. Maybe he works really hard at his job too. I think that your response is emotional and unprofessional. If he pays what's the problem?

I know and understand all this (except the "emotional and unprofessional" part)-- which is why, as I said, I really like this student and want to work out a solution to the problem, which is not, as I see it, a matter of money, but the kind of satisfaction that comes from being allowed to do one's job (i.e. improving the performance of both my student and his horse) as it should be done.

I think what's going to happen is that he will try to give me enough notice to go to his place (which is less than a mile down the road) to work his horse on days when he can't make it home from work in time. I'd much, much rather be paid for that than for skipped lessons, not to mention that I very much want the chance at least to help this horse improve if the rider can't make it. The last thing I want are horses and riders out in public reputed to have been in my program for a long time but haven't made enough progress to justify the cost!

There are, IOW, some serious drawbacks to being paid for not working, and I hardly think it "unprofessional" of me not to consider them!

egontoast
Jul. 28, 2007, 04:41 PM
'If he pays what's the problem?'

You just don't get it.

Gayla
Jul. 28, 2007, 07:06 PM
I know and understand all this (except the "emotional and unprofessional" part)-- which is why, as I said, I really like this student and want to work out a solution to the problem, which is not, as I see it, a matter of money, but the kind of satisfaction that comes from being allowed to do one's job (i.e. improving the performance of both my student and his horse) as it should be done.

I think what's going to happen is that he will try to give me enough notice to go to his place (which is less than a mile down the road) to work his horse on days when he can't make it home from work in time. I'd much, much rather be paid for that than for skipped lessons, not to mention that I very much want the chance at least to help this horse improve if the rider can't make it. The last thing I want are horses and riders out in public reputed to have been in my program for a long time but haven't made enough progress to justify the cost!

There are, IOW, some serious drawbacks to being paid for not working, and I hardly think it "unprofessional" of me not to consider them!
I understand.

Gayla
Jul. 28, 2007, 07:14 PM
'If he pays what's the problem?'

You just don't get it.
Well, I don't mean to imply that trainers should only be about the money. It is just that people are not perfect and some people are not really good at keeping appointments. If he calls and doesn't let you show up and make the drive (maybe that is happening and that is totally unacceptable) and he pays for the time slot then I don't understand the HUGE deal. I do understand Fish's perspective more after further explanation. I directly manage 40 people at my job and if I didn't bend to each and every one of their strengths and weaknesses I would not be helping them to be the best they can be. In many situations a trainer is a leader and sometimes there has to be a hard conversation about expectations. Maybe Fish should tell the man how it makes her feel and what she would like to get from the relationship and how it can be a win win. Many many people are very dense and it may not even occur to him how Fish feels. This (lack of awareness of other people's feels/needs) is something that I continue to be surprised at in my own life.

EqLuvr
Jul. 28, 2007, 08:13 PM
If the OP had known how the trainer felt before she bailed on her, maybe things might have worked out differently.

Anlehnen
Jul. 28, 2007, 08:51 PM
Hello I am the instructor:

First, let me say that every story has two sides and most human beings tend to push the story towards their own end. And the horse industry is not immune to making judgments about people without hearing both sides.

Bovon did not give you all the facts.

When she said I was going on vacation, she forgot to mention that I’m getting married and going on a honeymoon.

She is right that I did not return her call. Instead, I emailed her that I was not available. Bovon received the email, but chose not to respect my response that “I am not available.”

Bovon is a client that expects me to book an appointment at her convenience. She will call me on Wednesday to book an 8:30am lesson on Thursday, or call me and cancel a next day appointment. That’s fine when it happens on occasion, but this client does it all the time. It is always about her. The last time she wanted to book a lesson she emailed me and said, “I know this is short notice but life has changed my plans (again):) Are you available for a lesson tommorow or thursday am? “

She also calls me constantly with questions. I have never had a client that is so demanding of my time outside of a lesson.

Yet, she will not respect a simple request to keep the horses in the stall so I do not waste my time trying to catch them. Her horses are the only horses that are difficult to catch. I don’t have this issue with any other client’s horses.

This is not the first time she has chosen to ignore my request to keep the horses in the stalls. And she always has an excuse, or it is always someone else’s fault that they were not in the stalls.

She does not respect my time. I drive 40 minutes one way to her farm. She seems to think that she is my only client; she has no idea that I arrive at my first barn at 7 am and my day doesn’t end until 8:30 or 9pm.

And she makes irregular payments. Her last payment included the last past due invoice and the current invoice. I invoice my clients for work performed. The invoice clearly states – Terms: Due Upon Receipt.

She is very impatient. She has only ridden for about 4 years; but was off almost a year due to a fall from one of her horses. This was before I started working with her. Being a green rider, she has no concept of the dedication it takes to make a dressage horse. At one point, she expected to be in the show ring and pinning after a few months of taking lessons.
I have tried my best to help her, but sometimes clients don’t want to hear what the instructor has to say. And sometimes clients demand more than instructors can afford to give of their time. Sometimes it just is not a good match.

So, why am I bothering to post my side of the story? I do not want to be judge unfairly. One day, every one of you who made a comment on this board will be in the position of being judged. So, before you make judgment or give advice on COTH, just remember you usually do not have all the facts.

And I really do wish Bovon well.

fish
Jul. 28, 2007, 09:19 PM
Well, I don't mean to imply that trainers should only be about the money. It is just that people are not perfect and some people are not really good at keeping appointments. If he calls and doesn't let you show up and make the drive (maybe that is happening and that is totally unacceptable) and he pays for the time slot then I don't understand the HUGE deal. I do understand Fish's perspective more after further explanation. I directly manage 40 people at my job and if I didn't bend to each and every one of their strengths and weaknesses I would not be helping them to be the best they can be. In many situations a trainer is a leader and sometimes there has to be a hard conversation about expectations. Maybe Fish should tell the man how it makes her feel and what she would like to get from the relationship and how it can be a win win. Many many people are very dense and it may not even occur to him how Fish feels. This (lack of awareness of other people's feels/needs) is something that I continue to be surprised at in my own life.

And what did I say to give you the idea that I haven't 'told the man'???? Are you kidding? (Last thing I'll ever learn to do is keep my mouth shut.) This has been an ongoing discussion for months and thank you, we are quite appreciative of one another and get along very well.

Yes, it would be helpful if people did not jump to conclusions (especially judgmental ones) without knowing all the facts.

egontoast
Jul. 28, 2007, 09:46 PM
It's always good to hear another side of a story, Anlehnen

The truth is often somewhere in between.

Thanks for posting.

Lisa Cook
Jul. 28, 2007, 10:27 PM
[quote=dray;2589538]
She sounds like a pompous jerk./quote]

You know what? I don't blame the trainer one bit. Having the horses out when she came to ride - not once but TWICE - shows a lack of respect for the instructor and her time and expertise. It doesn't matter if instructor was paid for the trips, anyway. It's not a money thing - it is the lack of respect. If it was important enough to the OP, the OP would have remembered to make sure horses were left in, vacation or no vacation.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the trainers I work with would have "fired" me the first time they arrived to find the horses out. I was just about fired one time when I forgot to bring spurs with me after expressly being told to bring them. I'm not kidding. The lecture lasted about 10 minutes, and my trainer pointed out that if my boss at work told me to bring something to a meeting, I would never, ever simply "forget" my boss' request. And my trainer wanted the same respect that I give my boss at work. I totally understand where the trainer was coming from.

Elegante E
Jul. 28, 2007, 10:32 PM
Anlehnen: Just curious, but did your email say that you were NEVER available ever again? That you were terminating the relationship permanently?

True there are two sides to every story, but so what. It's not the responsibility of those on this BB to guess what the other side is. People give advice based on the information available. For good or bad, that's the way it is. And if you read the thread, then you know the advice was for the OP to accept the situation and find another trainer. Don't see the harm in that advice.

Jaegermonster
Jul. 28, 2007, 10:38 PM
[quote=dray;2589538]
She sounds like a pompous jerk./quote]

You know what? I don't blame the trainer one bit. Having the horses out when she came to ride - not once but TWICE - shows a lack of respect for the instructor and her time and expertise. It doesn't matter if instructor was paid for the trips, anyway. It's not a money thing - it is the lack of respect. If it was important enough to the OP, the OP would have remembered to make sure horses were left in, vacation or no vacation.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the trainers I work with would have "fired" me the first time they arrived to find the horses out. I was just about fired one time when I forgot to bring spurs with me after expressly being told to bring them. I'm not kidding. The lecture lasted about 10 minutes, and my trainer pointed out that if my boss at work told me to bring something to a meeting, I would never, ever simply "forget" my boss' request. And my trainer wanted the same respect that I give my boss at work. I totally understand where the trainer was coming from.

The only flaw I can see in your analogy is your boss is the one paying you right? So who does that make the boss in the OP's situation?
Now, I agree that in your analogy, were you serious about your riding you would have remembered your spurs, etc. However, you don't say how old you are, but I am at an age that if I got a dressing down like you described from a trainer, the issue would not be should I get a new trainer, but who is it and how soon can I schedule a lesson?
The whole trainer thing is a two way street. There has to be mutual respect for each other's time and energies, and the trainer has to feel that the person they are training is worth training. And the student has to feel that they are not merely tolerated because they have a checkbook.
In any event, I think this situation is just not a good match for both sides, and it is best for Bovon to find a new trainer.

egontoast
Jul. 28, 2007, 10:40 PM
Not exactly, EE. Your assumptions went farther and were far nastier than that.

There's no rule that says you have to believe everything you read on the net. Most of us figured that out a while ago.

Ghazzu
Jul. 28, 2007, 10:45 PM
a colonoscopy is not exactly a joke to a person my age.

The colonoscopy threat...

Threat? Methinks you are more than a little paranoid.
I didn't see anyone threatening you with a colonoscopy.
Does this happen to you often?

Gayla
Jul. 29, 2007, 12:03 AM
And what did I say to give you the idea that I haven't 'told the man'???? Are you kidding? (Last thing I'll ever learn to do is keep my mouth shut.) This has been an ongoing discussion for months and thank you, we are quite appreciative of one another and get along very well.

Yes, it would be helpful if people did not jump to conclusions (especially judgmental ones) without knowing all the facts.
I'm confused :confused: I wasn't being judgmental. I didn't mean to come across that way. It was totally hypothetical...give me a break.:winkgrin:

shaft0463
Jul. 29, 2007, 12:23 AM
Sure, but what does that have to do with the OP's situation?

She wondered if the fact that her horses had not been brought in as expected,for the trainer to ride TWICE may have had anything to do with her being 'fired'. She thought that since she paid her, it should be OK. That's the issue.

someone woke up grumpy.

my point was that sometimes it IS the trainer who is the unprofessional one, not always the student. it can go both ways.

mishmash
Jul. 29, 2007, 12:51 AM
[The whole trainer thing is a two way street. There has to be mutual respect for each other's time and energies, and the trainer has to feel that the person they are training is worth training. And the student has to feel that they are not merely tolerated because they have a checkbook. ]


Well said. It is no fun to train with someone who blows you off-whether you are in the shoes of the trainer or the student. Mutual respect for each others time-and money-should be an integral part of the trainer/student relationship.

hb
Jul. 29, 2007, 12:51 AM
a colonoscopy is not exactly a joke to a person my age.

The colonoscopy threat,

If a colonoscopy seems threatening then try a semi-colonoscopy instead;

Bogey2
Jul. 29, 2007, 07:35 AM
I have a lot of respect for my trainers time and keep my appts. with her...I am also flexible if she has to change it. She is extremely busy and has a lot of horses and people to deal with.

I also teach and can tell you that the lack of respect for my time is a big issue. Lateness, constant changing, e-mailing, calling...can I drop everything and go look at a horse...and so on.

I am not all about the money and neither is my trainer. I have been up front with clients and told them I could not work with them because (insert reason). One of the reasons may be I am not experienced enough to handle the particular level or horse. If you have ever worked with trainers who are just about the money, you will appreciate the trainer who is not.

Thomas_1
Jul. 29, 2007, 07:49 AM
Some people obviously take themselves and their hallowed internet advice a little too seriously. I think the colonscopy comment was in realtion to the flowery nakedness comment and not because you disagree. Never let go of your persecution complex, though, you NEED it.

That said , I don't blame a coach for dumping someone who wastes their time and then thinks it's all Ok if they pay them for nothing. That's insulting. A good coach will just drop people, as politely as possible, if they are wasting their time and think it's all about money. My coach, who is battling cancer quietly, would likely dump someone who got them out to their farm twice only to find the horses weren't in for her. It shows a certain lack of respect .Once, maybe. Twice, see ya. Lots of other people out there who value her time more. :yes: Excellent posting and I entirely agree with every word you said.

Clearly the trainer doesn't want or need a time waster and doesn't want the business. The OP needs to get over it and find someone who might not mind being messed about.

dray
Jul. 29, 2007, 09:11 AM
Back to my short post and comments:

Dudettes - remember, I posted before trainer showed up so unfry me how boutit goodbuddy???

Underlying problem here IMHO:
Boundaries - don't seem to have been clearly drawn in the beginning

I see a potential clear lack of communication from the beginning on both sides as a potential element for creating this situation.

Initial post - student didn't know she was being blown off and didn't know why

Trainer could have told student that student can not continue to change schedule and cancel and have horses out, etc. without notice - e.g., give fair and clear warning that even though trainer is paid, trainer will not accept this - implemented a policy with some teeth - lesson fee plus $25 inconvenience fee or something like the bank does for a bad check???

Trainer says student is a greenie - well, everyone has to start somewhere and I don't know of many who really ride who have not taken a fall....even the NOT GREENIES (BNTs) have this happen, so that seemed a like a little bit of a dig.

Trainer - congratulations on getting married. Now it seems you officially have a new slot open for a student that meets your goals.

Bovon, glad you recovered from the fall and started back riding. As I said before, books and videos will get you through until you find the right match for you. Enjoy the opportunity that you have to clarify your goals, etc.

Flame on everyone.

Donna

dray
Jul. 29, 2007, 09:21 AM
And one last thought -


It sure would be nice to be paid whether I showed up for work or not each day.

fish
Jul. 29, 2007, 09:49 AM
I'm confused :confused: I wasn't being judgmental. I didn't mean to come across that way. It was totally hypothetical...give me a break.:winkgrin:

I didn't mean to sound as snappish as I apparently did. In an effort to help you out with your confusion, however, please note that my original post about my student reads "I tell him...." Under these circumstances, I was confused myself by your suggestion that "maybe if I [Fish] would tell him...."

siegi b.
Jul. 29, 2007, 10:54 AM
This whole money issue bugs me.... You guys go to the dentist or doctor and you pay those people, right? But you also show up at appointment time, don't you? And you don't have a problem if the doctor's office charges you x number of dollars if you can't make the appointment.

So why should it be any different with riding instructors? Just because people provide a service for a fee does NOT mean that you own them for the time paid. As I said before, try that approach with a doctor and see how far you will get.

The OP has made it abundantly clear that she doesn't think there's anything wrong with missing appointments, not having horses ready, etc. as long as she is paying the big $$$$$. Well, life is going to be a big disappointment for her given that attitude. There are in fact some things that money can't buy.... Think about it...

horselips
Jul. 29, 2007, 02:46 PM
If a colonoscopy seems threatening then try a semi-colonoscopy instead;


Oh, MY, but that made my day!

But...but I thot everyone enjoys a flexible rod-with-camera up the bum -NOT :lol: :lol:

Or maybe is the fear of that rod the fear that it will let some of all that hot air escape?? :uhoh:



'lipsHadOneOnceAndIsNoScaredyCat

Sanely Eccentric
Jul. 29, 2007, 02:50 PM
Lessons at my barn - You agree to a lesson time, are encouraged to have your horse warmed up before that time, lesson is 45 minutes long counting from lesson start time, and payment is due at end of lesson. If that doesn't work for you, then there are plenty of other potential students who want your time slot. We have wonderful trainers and we treat them like gold. Courtesy and respect go a long ways for both trainer and students. :) Seems so simple....seems being the operative word.

Lambie Boat
Jul. 29, 2007, 05:40 PM
; hb wins my prize for the all time best response in a chit-chat room. a semi-colonoscopy? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! OMG!! now that's humor.
thanks :D

Stacie
Jul. 29, 2007, 06:00 PM
[quote=dray;2589538]
The lecture lasted about 10 minutes, and my trainer pointed out that if my boss at work told me to bring something to a meeting, I would never, ever simply "forget" my boss' request. And my trainer wanted the same respect that I give my boss at work. I totally understand where the trainer was coming from.

It's a misconceived concept that "if you cared" you would not forget. It's not true. Some people just do not work that way. They do care. And they forget. I am not one of them, but I have had to unlearn the myth "you'd remember if you cared" or "If you respected me you'd remember" to work with all those poor souls whose brains do not work like mine. They try and try and it is so hard for them. And it can be very hard for those who work with them. Sure some people really don't care and are disrespectful, but if I had an instructor waste 10 minutes of my instruction time having a hissyfit over forgotten spurs, that would be the last time I rode with that person. How amazingly egocentric and presumptuous to assume that they know why I forgot something. It's all about them.

dalpal
Jul. 29, 2007, 07:30 PM
I'm an instructor...not riding, but music. Students come to the house for lessons.

I totally understand where the instructor is coming from on this thread.

If you are fortuante enough to be in a position that you don't have to deal with people who stress you out or frustrate you, then you shouldn't have to.

I'm not dissing the OP..but just stating that there is no reason why this instructor should feel she HAS to continue giving anyone lessons that she doesn't want to deal with.

I have people that I have to constantly ask them to remember to pay me, it drives me insane. I have clients who think just because I'm teaching out of my house that it's no big deal if they cancel 5 minutes before the lesson and that I should reschedule them. I also love the ones who want to reschedule and then lay out for me when they are available....no consideration for my time. I have one lady who constantly badgers and yells at me because either my yard doesn't meet her standards (yes, I'm not kidding) or I've sent her one too many email newsletters.

The point is, that as an instructor if you are in a situation where you don't have to put up with crap that annoys you....then why should you????



If the instructor is having to chase you down for money owed, there is constant cancelling/rescheduling, if the student is impatient/questioning the instructor...then I don't blame them for terminating the relationship.
Just my two cents.

Lisa Cook
Jul. 29, 2007, 07:31 PM
Stacie - The 10 minute lecture was outside of my lesson time, so I wasn't paying to be lectured.

And while I understand some people can be forgetful about important things (my husband would be example # 1): I'm not one of them - at all. *And my trainer knew that very well.* We had previously held conversations before regarding my work, and my trainer knows how very seriously I take my job. And he wanted me to take my riding just as seriously. Again - he knows that I want to be successful with my riding - I'm not taking lessons just for the sake of taking lessons. If I had been a casual rider just out for a lesson with no particular goals in mind with my riding, I don't think he would have the same reaction to my forgetting the spurs. But I don't think casual riders would enjoy lessons from this trainer, regardless, so I suppose it is a moot point.

And to the person who said that my analogy was bad because I'm paying the trainer while my boss pays me. *It's not about the money.* Just remove the exchange of money from the whole equation. It is about respecting people and their time.

A good boss will develop the people under their supervision. I've had some great bosses who will nurture and develop talent and help the people who report to them prepare for and move on to the next level within the company. And isn't that also that role of a good trainer within the context of riding?

Pony Fixer
Jul. 29, 2007, 08:18 PM
I've been a boss and an employee.

I have a VERY wonderful trainer that usually works with my crazy schedule (young toddler, husband often out of the country, working part time, part time nanny).

I learned the hard way, and through managment classes, that most relationships with any employer/employee that you must set expectations for both parties ahead of time. Often in life we don't do this, so sometimes you have to go back and "reset" them so all parties know what is expected.

I know that for 9 months out of the year, my lesson time is "loose". But in the heat of summer, I get an hour of her time, whether I'm on time or not, as she has lots of horses to ride/instruct before it gets hot. And I'm OK with that because I know if I can't get there as soon as I think, I'm gonna only gt a 30 min lesson that day.

So, lesson learned for many of us reading this thread--set expectations at the beginning of the relationship!

goeslikestink
Jul. 29, 2007, 08:44 PM
Hello I am the instructor:

First, let me say that every story has two sides and most human beings tend to push the story towards their own end. And the horse industry is not immune to making judgments about people without hearing both sides.

Bovon did not give you all the facts.

When she said I was going on vacation, she forgot to mention that I’m getting married and going on a honeymoon.

She is right that I did not return her call. Instead, I emailed her that I was not available. Bovon received the email, but chose not to respect my response that “I am not available.”

Bovon is a client that expects me to book an appointment at her convenience. She will call me on Wednesday to book an 8:30am lesson on Thursday, or call me and cancel a next day appointment. That’s fine when it happens on occasion, but this client does it all the time. It is always about her. The last time she wanted to book a lesson she emailed me and said, “I know this is short notice but life has changed my plans (again):) Are you available for a lesson tommorow or thursday am? “

She also calls me constantly with questions. I have never had a client that is so demanding of my time outside of a lesson.

Yet, she will not respect a simple request to keep the horses in the stall so I do not waste my time trying to catch them. Her horses are the only horses that are difficult to catch. I don’t have this issue with any other client’s horses.

This is not the first time she has chosen to ignore my request to keep the horses in the stalls. And she always has an excuse, or it is always someone else’s fault that they were not in the stalls.

She does not respect my time. I drive 40 minutes one way to her farm. She seems to think that she is my only client; she has no idea that I arrive at my first barn at 7 am and my day doesn’t end until 8:30 or 9pm.

And she makes irregular payments. Her last payment included the last past due invoice and the current invoice. I invoice my clients for work performed. The invoice clearly states – Terms: Due Upon Receipt.

She is very impatient. She has only ridden for about 4 years; but was off almost a year due to a fall from one of her horses. This was before I started working with her. Being a green rider, she has no concept of the dedication it takes to make a dressage horse. At one point, she expected to be in the show ring and pinning after a few months of taking lessons.
I have tried my best to help her, but sometimes clients don’t want to hear what the instructor has to say. And sometimes clients demand more than instructors can afford to give of their time. Sometimes it just is not a good match.

So, why am I bothering to post my side of the story? I do not want to be judge unfairly. One day, every one of you who made a comment on this board will be in the position of being judged. So, before you make judgment or give advice on COTH, just remember you usually do not have all the facts.

And I really do wish Bovon well.



to= chai
haha


welcome trainer person

Dalfan
Jul. 29, 2007, 08:59 PM
to= chai

Translation; Touche. :)

Sanely Eccentric
Jul. 29, 2007, 09:09 PM
A good boss will develop the people under their supervision. I've had some great bosses who will nurture and develop talent and help the people who report to them prepare for and move on to the next level within the company. And isn't that also that role of a good trainer within the context of riding?

That's great in theory. I teach high school and while I work hard to develop knowledge, talent, and understanding in my students it just doesn't happen that way with all students. I've come to the understanding that I can put on the best dog & pony show possible daily, integrate practical application in with the knowledge, even offer Jolly Ranchers and extra credit upon occasion, but the bottom line is if the student isn't motivated and doesn't want a work ethic then they are not going to learn. Ironically, those students tend to grumble loudly that teachers aren't giving them A's or a passing grade...something about not turning in assignments, doing classwork, etc...go figure that teachers would fail them. Anyhow, if I had the opportunity to teach just those students who wanted to learn my days would be amazing. I kinda envy a riding instructor who can just teach those who want to learn, have a work ethic, and respect their instructor.

*stepping down from my soapbox and remembering I'm still on summer break*:sadsmile:

ThatScaryChick
Jul. 29, 2007, 09:14 PM
It was nice that we got the trainers side of the story. I wonder if the OP knew that she was on vacation and heading on her honeymoon?

Sanely Eccentric
Jul. 29, 2007, 09:25 PM
vacation yes...but honeymoon was not mentioned in original post.

shaft0463
Jul. 29, 2007, 09:27 PM
[QUOTE=Lisa Cook;2590725]

It's a misconceived concept that "if you cared" you would not forget. It's not true. Some people just do not work that way. They do care. And they forget. I am not one of them, but I have had to unlearn the myth "you'd remember if you cared" or "If you respected me you'd remember" to work with all those poor souls whose brains do not work like mine. They try and try and it is so hard for them. And it can be very hard for those who work with them. Sure some people really don't care and are disrespectful, but if I had an instructor waste 10 minutes of my instruction time having a hissyfit over forgotten spurs, that would be the last time I rode with that person. How amazingly egocentric and presumptuous to assume that they know why I forgot something. It's all about them.

that is exactly right, not all of us can remember things like spurs, and it doesnt mean we dont care. it means our brains have 8 million things going on, and remembering to bring a certain item is hard. it can actually be a significant sign of ADHD, specifically the more "attention" side than the "hyperactivity" side. it can also be a sign of just plain having too much on your plate!

i dont think i would stick with anyone who wasted my time yelling at me over spurs. or yelling at me at all for that matter :no:

Nuguum
Jul. 29, 2007, 09:54 PM
I have no idea if she is snubbing you or not. The only way you are going to find out is to ask her if she still wants to teach you or not.

I think if she does still want to work with you after he vacation, while she is gone, I would work on fetching your horse up. Why is fetching your horse up so difficult to do?

Elegante E
Jul. 29, 2007, 10:11 PM
Not exactly, EE. Your assumptions went farther and were far nastier than that.

There's no rule that says you have to believe everything you read on the net. Most of us figured that out a while ago.

Oh bullpucky. My assumption was that the trainer did not inform the person that things weren't the way she wished.

Egon, is that long for ego?

horselips
Jul. 29, 2007, 10:25 PM
Egon, is that long for ego?

Why no, Egon means Extra-Gifted On Netiquette

Or

Elite Guardian Of Naysayers :D

mp
Jul. 29, 2007, 10:46 PM
a colonoscopy is not exactly a joke to a person my age.

The colonoscopy threat, as well as the insults, is for anyone who doesn't agree, sight unseen, that the trainer is always wrong, a pompous jerk, etc. For anyone who, after 40 years of watching students interact with riding instructors, who doesn't believe that the instructor is ALWAYS at fault, in EVERY CASE, without question and that the possibility, even the most remote one, that the riding instructor is NOT entirely, completely at fault when anything goes wrong.

and you don't think anyone in dressage takes their performance a little too emotionally? you believe that?

I didn't weigh in at all on who's at fault in the trainer/client situation, slc. I was making fun of your histrionic description of dressage as some kind of soul-baring epic struggle.

I'm sure there are people who do get that wrapped up emotionally in their efforts to ride well, but then there are nutcases in all fields of endeavor, aren't there?

coriander
Jul. 29, 2007, 11:15 PM
See, I always heard riding dressage was very much like a colonoscopy, but then that could just be the rumour in the hunter/jumper world.

michcheypen
Jul. 29, 2007, 11:35 PM
It's hard to find a good trainer to come to you.Most trainers work out of certain barns.I am a trainer and if I came to your barn twice and the horses aren't even in the stall I'd be very annoyed.My time is precious.And to forget-believe me this has happened to me- it is rude!(not 1 time but 2) You schedule an appointment- ride all the way there-and then you have to turn around and go home.There are other clients out there that would more accomadating.So I definately believe she is snubbing you.Saying sorry once -I would be o.k with that but if it's a habit then I'd dump you

Wanderluster
Jul. 30, 2007, 12:54 AM
See, I always heard riding dressage was very much like a colonoscopy, but then that could just be the rumour in the hunter/jumper world.
Dressage = Anal ? Nah. :lol:
Delfan you are a magician as much as I do love stinky your insight to the cryptic are invaluable.

~Freedom~
Jul. 30, 2007, 01:19 AM
If a colonoscopy seems threatening then try a semi-colonoscopy instead;

Is that possible?

horselips
Jul. 30, 2007, 01:48 AM
Is that possible?

Perhaps it means half a procedure? The doctor drugs you to your eyeballs, inserts proper instruments....Then goes away - out to lunch, golfing, a manicure - forgetting all about you.

jetsmom
Jul. 30, 2007, 02:24 AM
A semi-colonoscopy is when they do the job half a$$ed.

Sabine
Jul. 30, 2007, 02:31 AM
See, I always heard riding dressage was very much like a colonoscopy, but then that could just be the rumour in the hunter/jumper world.

Actually - to be perfectly honest with you- if you are a top notch hunter rider- it is equally anal as dressage- there is really no difference- except the rules are different - the way the horse has to go and listen is different- but that's the same with a very good western pleasure horse- these are all very rigid- clear-trained disciplines...horses are not born to do this- they have to be trained to do this....Jumpers is a different story- it is the physical ability of the horse and rider and the balls of the horse and rider that rule that sport. So to a large degree different. HOWEVER- if you make it past 3'6"- it is again the product of proper dressage- finetuning and incredible physical ability that makes a GREAT jumper. So yes- I guess the colonoscopy being the image of the naked- bare- all secrets revealed situtation...that will occur with dressage- with hunters and surely with upperlevel jumping- IF you don't do your homework- fess up to the fact that this is a serious sport and that it matters to be on time, organized, do what you say you will do and FOCUSSSS!!!

Friggin- FOCUS because noone will ever repeat the same thing over- you must have the capacity to learn and retain and develop on the basis of your intelligence, committment and ultimate desire to succeed.

That's it.
It's a tough sport- there are easier ones out there...;)

sidepasser
Jul. 30, 2007, 08:42 AM
As to the trainer being angry about catching the horses. I wouldn't want anyone training my horses that can't catch 2 horses and it not be that big of a deal. My god, you were on vacation. She just didn't like you that much and this is something that we all have to live with.

I have had the pleasure of owning a hard to catch horse that was a former ranch horse that had only been ROPED in a round pen to be caught..(unknown to me at the time of purchase, which was one of those great learning experiences - always see horse out in paddock and approach with halter, if horse runs..leave immediately and thank person for their time..lol). Horse was a fab jumper and kid's horse once you got your hands on her. Take that halter off and you could NEVER catch her, even with feed. Halter on and you might chase her for an hour..and when she was finally cornered, you could put your hand on her mane and lead her anywhere. Once I learned this, I never turned her out without a catch rope on her. We kept her till she died and she never changed, and treats..what's a treat? Bribery did not work with that mare.

No way would I expect a trainer, farrier, vet, or riding instructor to catch my horse. The horse should be already in the stall if the owner can't be present and someone in "authority" should be present. Perferably someone in authority (designated by owner) should have animal clean, hooves picked, fly sprayed, and ready for trainer to put his/her saddle on. My dollars are better spent on TRAINING time rather than "chasin pony round the field" time.

Of course there will always be those who think that if one "pays" one can dictate. Unfortunately unless the payee is terribly broke or without a clientele base, sometimes that is true..but as soon as that payee becomes better known....

As a student I have had to wait for lessons, once for almost an hour..I did not complain, I watched the instructor and tried to learn something. Would I do that week after week, heck no. My time is as valuable as the instructors and I will wait a few minutes for a "finish up", but half hour every week, nope. I am always a bit ahead of time (unless there is a catastrophe like a blow out on the road)..I arrive for a lesson 20 - 30 minutes ahead of time, tack up , warm up and am ready to ride at the stated time appointment time. I cannot stand tardiness as it shows disrespect for the trainer, the other students and the lesson horses that are standing waiting. My tardiness should not cause others a problem.

and while I am ranting - lol ..I also think that people should pay their vets/farriers/trainers/instructors at the time of service (unless one can work it out in advance otherwise).

Relationships are a two way street, both should be respectful to the other. If not, the relationship sours much like a marriage does.

That description of riding dressage scared me.....do I need a psychologist to get over my angst if I am not perfect? Sounds fishy to me..is this a sneaky way to add another person to the riding payroll? lol...

Alagirl
Jul. 30, 2007, 01:07 PM
A semi-colonoscopy is when they do the job half a$$ed.



:lol:ROFLMAOPIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:

slc2
Jul. 30, 2007, 01:10 PM
That description of riding dressage scared me.

it scares me too, and i think it's because many people take it, and themselves, far too seriously. to be on an emotional rollercoaster because of a riding lesson? there are more important things in the world.

hitchinmygetalong
Jul. 30, 2007, 01:16 PM
That description of riding dressage scared me.

it scares me too, and i think it's because many people take it, and themselves, far too seriously. to be on an emotional rollercoaster because of a riding lesson? there are more important things in the world.

Which description are you referring to?

katarine
Jul. 30, 2007, 01:20 PM
I have one student that I teach at her home. The first lesson, she was ready, horse was saddled, they were all set to go. The second lesson, at 10AM a week later, the horse wasn't even caught at 10AM and I was annoyed. I kept quiet as she sloooowly got around to brushing her mare, then offhandedly mentioned that I really did have to leave by 11:15, at the latest, as I had another lesson to teach at home (LIE :cool:). She zipped into action and was up and ready post haste. That was the right response, and I managed to stick around til 11:30 after all ;)

Had she failed to get the lead out and get a move on, darn skippy I'd have either a) fired her or b) been available until exactly the stroke of the hour, then see ya later, I'm gone. She realized her error (she's new to lessons) so we talked about that- yep, go ahead and be ready to roll when I get here, that'd be great.

I'm a really crappy babysitter, paid friend, and/or therapist to silly noodle brain adults. I work really hard and give 110% teaching lessons, I LOFF to help people, and I tend to expect the same of my students. Show Up and Try, On Time. Period. Pretty simple equation but one many people can't seem to figure out.

mp
Jul. 30, 2007, 01:28 PM
Which description are you referring to?

Her own. slc2 scared herself, poor thing.

But at least it took her mind off my colonoscopy threat.

jetsmom
Jul. 30, 2007, 01:31 PM
Her own. slc2 scared herself, poor thing.

But at least it took her mind off my colonoscopy threat.

It was only threatening because it would involve a Labrador Retriever, looking for that stick...:D;)

Hoofprince in Mud
Jul. 30, 2007, 02:14 PM
Had she failed to get the lead out and get a move on, darn skippy I'd have either a) fired her or b) been available until exactly the stroke of the hour, then see ya later, I'm gone. She realized her error (she's new to lessons) so we talked about that- yep, go ahead and be ready to roll when I get here, that'd be great.

Not wanting to pick on you, (and in agreement about your right to terminate a business arrangement), but the person who pays, "fires", or "sacks" while the person who receives financial gain from the transaction and wishes, for whatever reason to no longer receive that gain, they "resign" or "quit".

So, if the person who couldn't get their horse ready in time for the lesson you were giving them, you may take the option to resign from instructing them how to ride a horse. If the person who was her own sweet time time getting ready for a lesson became unhappy with your preformance as a Riding Instructor she could fire you.

katarine
Jul. 30, 2007, 03:13 PM
eyerolling here- it's a JOKE of mine, the firing thing. Been known to call quitting a friendship, firing, as in "I had to fire Dawn. She was bugging the crap out of me'.

Just an expression.

bovon
Jul. 30, 2007, 03:58 PM
you know what..this thread has gotten out of hand! Really.. I have asked my trainer (well I guess it's ex-trainer now) if she'd reconsider and I've offered resolutions on my behavior to make things work. So far I don't think she will reconsider and that's her choice. Unfortunately , these things happen sometimes. She is a good trainer and I did learn quite a bit from her and I wish her luck as well. :)

patch work farm
Jul. 30, 2007, 04:18 PM
I think you and your (ex) trainer have at least parted ways in the best way possible (maybe not initially) but at least you have expresed yourselves, wished each other well and will move on. For whatever reason, things in life just happen and you may not know why at the time but later in life you just might find it was for the best.

I have worked with my trainer for 15 years and I have actually been criticized for working with him for so long (I know many others who change on a frequent basis, might work for them but not for me). I have also conducted horse business with him throughout the years and it has always worked out well for both of us. He just bought one of my foals (and I couldn't be more pleased) so for some, especially me-a longer term relationship is best. That said, I travel an hour + to him and am WELL known to be late for any number of reasons (car fires on Rte. 340, etc.), if he were not happy, insulted or just angry about it, he would/should tell me, ESPECIALLY after this number of years. (I do happen to know that he has a tardiness issue too). If he were coming to my farm to teach me and had to catch my horses, he wouldn't do it and not only wouldn't I expect him to, I would expect him to be done with me, despite our 15 year history. It is an issue of respect and for some reason these days, no one seems to understand what respect really is. "Do unto others".

Eq3nStar
Jul. 30, 2007, 05:22 PM
It was only threatening because it would involve a Labrador Retriever, looking for that stick...:D;)

:lol::lol::lol:

fullmoon fever
Jul. 30, 2007, 10:56 PM
Oh come now. Labradors are not threatening at all. If it were a Rottie or a Pit Bull, that would be a different story. ;)

Ghazzu
Jul. 30, 2007, 11:07 PM
eyerolling here- it's a JOKE of mine, the firing thing. Been known to call quitting a friendship, firing, as in "I had to fire Dawn. She was bugging the crap out of me'.

Just an expression.

Likewise.
I have colleagues who will jokingly refer to "firing" a client.

Hazelnut
Jul. 31, 2007, 07:50 AM
I'm a really crappy babysitter, paid friend, and/or therapist to silly noodle brain adults.

My trainer is taking me from a noodle brain to a competent rider. Its hard to be effective when you don't know how. A little more hand holding may be needed when skill sets are weak or nonexistent...

Auventera Two
Jul. 31, 2007, 10:03 AM
See, I always heard riding dressage was very much like a colonoscopy, but then that could just be the rumour in the hunter/jumper world.

And in every other horse "world." :lol:

bovon
Jul. 31, 2007, 03:40 PM
I apologize for not telling the whole story initially, My (ex) trainer found it necessary to post a laundry list of things she was unhappy with me about on this BB. That's her choice, However I will not do the same (list of things she had done that I was unhappy about) I really thought we could work things out privately. The thread wasn't meant to be a chance for anyone to diss me as a student or her as a trainer. When I didn't hear from her after a week I became concerned and posted here to get some insight on what I thought could be a redeemable situation. Perhaps Erin could shut this thread down.!!~

flshgordon
Jul. 31, 2007, 04:41 PM
I guess I am the only one who is *aghasted* at the trainer's behavior (not the non-response to phone calls/emails, but the actual LISTING of complaints she has against said Client).

Dear Trainer: while you may have had every good reason to dump said client, this was a crappy, unprofessional way to end it no matter if you got married to Prince Charles himself. The polite thing to do would have been to discuss these problems you had before they got to the point you no longer wanted them as a client and then keep it to yourself, not embarass the person on a public BB. Obviously there is more than one problem and it didn't get out of hand over night so you are partly at fault here. I understand that Client-Trainer relationships are not all guaranteed to work and in fact many do fail, but why on earth would you publicly ridicule a client for her shortcomings when she never mentioned your name, farm, location, etc? Seriously, if I were the OP, I'd post your name so that anyone in the area can beware of your wrath in case they're not quite up to your standards. Remember when you treat a client badly they tell a lot more people than if you treat them well.

nwrider
Jul. 31, 2007, 04:57 PM
I guess I am the only one who is *aghasted* at the trainer's behavior (not the non-response to phone calls/emails, but the actual LISTING of complaints she has against said Client).

Dear Trainer: while you may have had every good reason to dump said client, this was a crappy, unprofessional way to end it no matter if you got married to Prince Charles himself. The polite thing to do would have been to discuss these problems you had before they got to the point you no longer wanted them as a client and then keep it to yourself, not embarass the person on a public BB. Obviously there is more than one problem and it didn't get out of hand over night so you are partly at fault here. I understand that Client-Trainer relationships are not all guaranteed to work and in fact many do fail, but why on earth would you publicly ridicule a client for her shortcomings when she never mentioned your name, farm, location, etc? Seriously, if I were the OP, I'd post your name so that anyone in the area can beware of your wrath in case they're not quite up to your standards. Remember when you treat a client badly they tell a lot more people than if you treat them well.


I was thinking exactly the same thing. Next time try taking the high road.

Sister Margarita
Jul. 31, 2007, 05:27 PM
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Next time try taking the high road.

Amen!

Wow, I thought the term "professional" meant an understanding of effective and discreet one-on-one discussion with a client when there is a misunderstanding. The OP asked a fairly general question as I saw it, and for the trainer to jump in on a public forum and vent is, well, a breach of professionalism. Smelled like defensive indignation to me.

The OP stated she tried to contact the trainer, with no response. That says a lot too.

Said "trainer" could have connected with client and said "I read your post, let's talk, here's how I saw it....." but no. Not this one.

shaft0463
Jul. 31, 2007, 05:45 PM
that was my intent on my "not all trainers are professional" post, only i think it came BEFORE the trainer revealed herself.

if the student/trainer relationship went this far downhill, i think there is a better match for this student. yes she may have made some mistakes, but the trainer did allow her to continue making those same mistakes until it reached the boiling point.

bovon, it sucks that youve had to go thru a public bashing of your mistakes, but take the high road (as you have done by leaving out other personal information), and learn from this whole thing.

i have ridden with a couple trainers who did not mind last-minute lessons. one of them was a very close friend of mine who became my trainer, and we did all of our lessons by last-minute scheduling. we had an understanding that i would take about one lesson or she would do one training ride a week, and sometimes we did more than that. and yes, she would catch my mare if need be. maybe that kind of relationship would be a better one for you to have? trainers who can offer that flexibility dont usually train full-time, but can be perfect for those with a busy schedule.

Dalfan
Jul. 31, 2007, 06:16 PM
Dear Trainer: while you may have had every good reason to dump said client, this was a crappy, unprofessional way to end it no matter if you got married to Prince Charles himself. The polite thing to do would have been to discuss these problems you had before they got to the point you no longer wanted them as a client and then keep it to yourself, not embarass the person on a public BB. Obviously there is more than one problem and it didn't get out of hand over night so you are partly at fault here. I understand that Client-Trainer relationships are not all guaranteed to work and in fact many do fail, but why on earth would you publicly ridicule a client for her shortcomings when she never mentioned your name, farm, location, etc? Seriously, if I were the OP, I'd post your name so that anyone in the area can beware of your wrath in case they're not quite up to your standards. Remember when you treat a client badly they tell a lot more people than if you treat them well.

I agree also.

katarine
Jul. 31, 2007, 06:24 PM
My trainer is taking me from a noodle brain to a competent rider. Its hard to be effective when you don't know how. A little more hand holding may be needed when skill sets are weak or nonexistent...

And I'm working VERY hard, and VERY empathetically with a young woman who had several bad falls last year. We go slowly. I do push, but I also console and congratulate. I try to make her laugh from time to time, and we take breaks from riding work, to sharpen her ground work skills and also give her a mental break from the stress of sitting in the saddle. Any saddle.

and guess what? It's the same woman who just didn't know to have the horse saddled for her 10:00 lesson. she's new to lessons and I was direct, but not ugly, and now she's on the ready and we're on the same page. All good.

My point remains: had she blown me off -maybe answered her cell phone, fed the chickens, I don't know, whatever... I'd have taught her what I could in the time allowed- and left at 11:00. But she took me seriously and picked up the pace, and I stayed as a result. Would you prefer I just hang around for 2 hours while she got around to saddling the horse? Would you do it?

As a student, just don't expect more of your trainer, than you do of yourself. Bovon expecting the trainer to make frequent last minute scheduling changes and catch HER OWN horses? Nope, she'd be fired, too ;)

bovon
Jul. 31, 2007, 06:39 PM
And I'm working VERY hard, and VERY empathetically with a young woman who had several bad falls last year. We go slowly. I do push, but I also console and congratulate. I try to make her laugh from time to time, and we take breaks from riding work, to sharpen her ground work skills and also give her a mental break from the stress of sitting in the saddle. Any saddle.

and guess what? It's the same woman who just didn't know to have the horse saddled for her 10:00 lesson. she's new to lessons and I was direct, but not ugly, and now she's on the ready and we're on the same page. All good.

My point remains: had she blown me off -maybe answered her cell phone, fed the chickens, I don't know, whatever... I'd have taught her what I could in the time allowed- and left at 11:00. But she took me seriously and picked up the pace, and I stayed as a result. Would you prefer I just hang around for 2 hours while she got around to saddling the horse? Would you do it?

As a student, just don't expect more of your trainer, than you do of yourself. Bovon expecting the trainer to make frequent last minute scheduling changes and catch HER OWN horses? Nope, she'd be fired, too ;)



Excuse me.... I DID NOT EXPECT her to make last minute changes..I asked politley. How the hell would I know her schedule if I wasn't told!! I did NOT EXPECT HER to catch my horses ( I was out of town and there was a misunderstanding w/my barn help) and I certainly DID NOT EXPECT to see a list of her grievances with me listed publicly on a internet BB. LAY OFF!!:mad:

katarine
Jul. 31, 2007, 06:40 PM
tsk tsk- discussion forum, madam. we'll be discussin' over here if you need us.

You only expected a list of YOUR beefs with her, huh?

Must be nice, controlling the populace like that. How's that working for ya ;)

~Freedom~
Jul. 31, 2007, 06:43 PM
Perhaps Erin could shut this thread down.!!~

Unlikely.

bovon
Jul. 31, 2007, 06:51 PM
tsk tsk- discussion forum, madam. we'll be discussin' over here if you need us.

You only expected a list of YOUR beefs with her, huh?

Must be nice, controlling the populace like that. How's that working for ya ;)



Having fun with this aren't you?? :D If you would read all the posts you would KNOW that I DID NOT post a laundry list of grievances like trainer did with me. Have a lovely evening!

katarine
Jul. 31, 2007, 07:24 PM
OK so you didn't post a list per se, rather you just posted a rather lopsided story, then scrambled when it fell back on you in the process.

Thinkee before typee.

and yes, I am having fun.

Lisa Cook
Jul. 31, 2007, 07:27 PM
I agree that the trainer could have been more restrained in her response here. However, up until the trainer provided their perspective, there was only one side of the story being told and posters were referring to the trainer by such lovely titles as "prima donna" and "pompous jerk". Yeah, after reading 3 pages of that, I might have lost some restraint by that point, too, if I were the trainer.

Bovon - you started it. If you are unhappy with a laundry list of your faults being aired in public, just remember that it probably never would have been revealed if you didn't start the topic in the first place.

bovon
Jul. 31, 2007, 07:32 PM
Yep I started it and I'm ending it!!!

coriander
Jul. 31, 2007, 09:59 PM
I almost hate to tell you this, bovon, but in the word of Freedom, "unlikely." That's the thing about posting on a BB - once you start a thread, you lose control of it. The only control you have is not to post; thus had you not started this thread, you wouldn't be feeling picked upon.

I think I may have engaged in semicolonoscopy above. Oops.

dray
Jul. 31, 2007, 10:22 PM
Officially over the top and mean spirited.

Donna

Erin
Jul. 31, 2007, 11:11 PM
Yep I started it and I'm ending it!!!

Um, no.

Much as in the real world, you can't simply make things you don't like disappear.

If you don't like the discussion, stop participating. And please refer to this thread (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=101296) for instructions on how NOT to use the post alert function.

flshgordon
Jul. 31, 2007, 11:56 PM
OK so you didn't post a list per se, rather you just posted a rather lopsided story, then scrambled when it fell back on you in the process.

Thinkee before typee.

and yes, I am having fun.

How lovely that you have fun at the expense of others :rolleyes:

The trainer acted like a jerk by posting what she did.

fish
Aug. 1, 2007, 08:50 AM
[QUOTE=

The trainer acted like a jerk by posting what she did.[/QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree. I think it's nice to read both sides of a story and support the trainer's decision to present hers.

One thing for sure: Bovon received a clear answer to her original question: yes, indeed, she was being "snubbed."

Others may disagree, but I hope that Bovon learns the following from this experience: that trainers willing to leave their home bases to teach lessons are relatively few and far between. Hence it may be necessary to treat them like good farriers, who are (at least in my area) well known for their propensity to drop clients who repeatedly make their trips frustrating or otherwise unpleasant. Indeed, as farriers' reputations grow to the extent that they cannot meet demand, I've known many who deliberately "weed out" their customers because they can only serve so many without becoming exhausted. Some do it by increasing their prices, keeping those willing to pay the most for their services, others by eliminating the least convenient (e.g. those furthest away, those without comfortable shelters in which to work, those whose horses they have to go catch....), some by dropping those whose personalities, voices, whatever, just plain get on their nerves. In other words, they keep only those who are what we call "good matches." Why keep aggravating customers (or employees) if we don't have to? I think most of us know and accept these sorts of things about our farriers. I certainly hear very little of "I'm paying HIM, so he should...." as long as he does his job well. Quite the contrary, it seems to me that most of us fully appreciate the value of a good farrier and are willing to go to some lengths to keep one. I see no reason why good instructors-- especially those willing to travel to our farms-- should not be treated with equal consideration and respect and be afforded the same lattitude quietly to drop certain clients without having to provide detailed defenses of their decisions to do so.

egontoast
Aug. 1, 2007, 10:51 AM
The trainer acted like a jerk by posting what she did.

No. Common sense is in short supply these days. You could guess there was more to the story before reading the trainer's reply. If you continually treat someone with disrespect and they decide to cut you loose, it's NOT THEIR FAULT.

It's a bit like this. Someone runs over your cat and says , "well, there was no sign saying please don't run over the cat so how was I to know?"

Common sense. She doesn't have to warn clients that she will dump them if they repeatedly waste her time.

Dalfan
Aug. 1, 2007, 11:02 AM
Common sense. She doesn't have to warn clients that she will dump them if they repeatedly waste her time.

True. But she also didn't have to come on this BB and list every little thing that irritates her about this client. Everything on her list SHOULD have been brought up with the client, in private, long before showing up here. The OP never named the trainer, and didn't post a laundry list of irritating behavior. Very unprofessional by the trainer, imho.

BarbB
Aug. 1, 2007, 12:05 PM
There were several pages of trainer bashing before the trainer spoke up.
Since everyone was feeling pretty free to decide what her reasons were and why she fired the client, I think she had a perfect right to set the record straight.

It's always annoying to people when they think they are talking behind someone's back and it turns out they aren't :eek:

class
Aug. 1, 2007, 12:14 PM
Since everyone was feeling pretty free to decide what her reasons were and why she fired the client, I think she had a perfect right to set the record straight.

no one would have been trying to decide what her reasons were if she had just professionaly answered her client's email in the first place to tell her she would not longer work with her! duh.

Mozart
Aug. 1, 2007, 12:37 PM
She's just not that into you.
So it seems Coreene was right. While the trainer may well have had "good cause" to terminate the professional relationship, not returning calls is not the way to do it. We (collective we) so frequently complain about horse industry pro's lack of business skills. Is this perhaps an example? Any particular reason the trainer can't call and say, "look, this is not working out. Here is the name of someone else you can call. Best of luck etc"

For example, fish is having a problem with a client. She likes client but it is not working out so well. She talks to client and says, let's work this out. If it is not worked out client at least knows why things did not work out. Client is not left wondering. Seems reasonable to me. And then if and when fish decides, "I'm outta here" I presume she will return client's call and have the dear john talk.

katarine
Aug. 1, 2007, 12:43 PM
ehh- you know the trainer may have wanted to take the vacation/honeymoon time to decide whether to end the relationship or not. Kinda cool her heels and decide if the money was worth the hassle. And maybe she thought a break for the both of them would afford Bovon a chance to gather her wits and not call every other minute with yet another question.

We'll never know. Either way, I would like to think they both learned something along the way. I think in the land of independent contractors (which both me and Mr Kat are), you run across people with terrible people skills- being out there on your own- no boss, no team leader, etc...well that can lead to some really good work ethics and habits, or really poor ones. There's no teammate to observe your habits, no boss, just you.

Dalfan
Aug. 1, 2007, 12:44 PM
There were several pages of trainer bashing before the trainer spoke up.

Yes, but not by the OP. In fact, in the original post, she pretty much admits SHE messed up, not the trainer. Trainer should have answered her email(s) and told her she couldn't teach her anymore and the reasons for that decision.

slc2
Aug. 1, 2007, 12:47 PM
everyone makes mistakes. hopefully not the same one too many times.

i think the biggest mistake anyone can make is treating the trainer like a friend, or treating the trainer-student relationship casually.

i think the trainer needs to be treated like a professional, be on time, horses ready. i think it's a BIG mistake to treat a trainer very casually. the trainer and student MAY become friends, but i don't think the student should assume it will or should happen. and i think it is really not a good idea to assume the trainer has time to talk before or after the lesson.

sometimes one can't get to a lesson. i constantly had work emergencies that messed up my lesson schedule. and yes, people occasionally pay late. and they do forget and mix up meeting times. even CEO's of big companies do that sometimes.

but i think that if one is basically polite and respectful it can usually be worked out. i don't think bovon made one specific mistake, she was just 'high maintenance' all around. and probably without realizing it at all. most people don't realize when they are causing someone else's blood to boil, but the internet has a way of turning up the temperature.

live and learn.

Horsepower
Aug. 1, 2007, 02:11 PM
I agree with FishGordan. I think this trainer was immature and unprofessional in her conduct. The original post was very general. The trainer never gave feedback to this student and some of her complaints seem silly. Apparently, it is awful to call a trainer and ask if she is available for a lesson for the next day? Since when? All the trainer has to do is say no (if it fits in their schedule, most trainers would be happy to add another lesson). Apparently it is a student's fault if she has hard to catch horses? Since when? It was the student's fault if the horse was not in its stall when the STUDENT was away and told the barn to put horse in stall? HUH? The student is awful because she once fell off a horse and has only been riding 4 years so she is SO lucky this trainer is WILLING to teach her? Guess this trainer has only the most amazing students who never fall and are perfect in every way. News to me that a trainer resents emails. Most students would think that they were bonding with the trainer and getting and giving feedback. If trainer didn't want emails, just tell the student so.

The only complaint that made sense is if checks didn't clear and money was owed.

Most important, why didn't this trainer tell the student what things she didn't like before ignoring the student's emails and calls? Apparently, it is OK to stonewall the student but there is nothing wrong with posting "her side" (complaints) on the board before ever contacting the student privately?

fish
Aug. 1, 2007, 02:44 PM
I agree with FishGordan. I think this trainer was immature and unprofessional in her conduct. The original post was very general. The trainer never gave feedback to this student and some of her complaints seem silly. Apparently, it is awful to call a trainer and ask if she is available for a lesson for the next day? Since when? All the trainer has to do is say no (if it fits in their schedule, most trainers would be happy to add another lesson). Apparently it is a student's fault if she has hard to catch horses? Since when? It was the student's fault if the horse was not in its stall when the STUDENT was away and told the barn to put horse in stall? HUH? The student is awful because she once fell off a horse and has only been riding 4 years so she is SO lucky this trainer is WILLING to teach her? Guess this trainer has only the most amazing students who never fall and are perfect in every way. News to me that a trainer resents emails. Most students would think that they were bonding with the trainer and getting and giving feedback. If trainer didn't want emails, just tell the student so.

The only complaint that made sense is if checks didn't clear and money was owed.

Most important, why didn't this trainer tell the student what things she didn't like before ignoring the student's emails and calls? Apparently, it is OK to stonewall the student but there is nothing wrong with posting "her side" (complaints) on the board before ever contacting the student privately?

What makes you so sure that she had not already tried talking to the student and found that her complaints were falling on deaf ears??
(Hate to tell you how often that happens!!!)

And, yes, employers ARE held responsible for the negligence of their employees, and owners are responsible for the behavior of their animals.

P.S. I would like to make one thing clear: I very much enjoy the client of whom I spoke and am quite confident that neither of us is in danger of being dropped by the other. My client and I simply have different attitudes toward money and what I should allow it to buy. It's something we're constantly negotiating, re-negotiating and laughing about, too. As long as my relationships with my clients remain enjoyable for both of us, we work things out. When we (and the horses) stop enjoying one another, I truly think it's best for everyone to look for a change.

Years ago, I had a client who complained in what I considered a peevish way to me that I "didn't have enough respect for his money" because I refused to cancel an appointment with another client to serve him when he was offering me "enough to make it worth your while." I told him he was quite right, I clearly did not have enough respect for his money to keep him happy and gave him the name of a highly competent (and much more expensive) trainer who would give his money precisely the kind of respect he desired. He's been with that trainer ever since. He's happy, the other trainer is happy, and so am I. As I said before, the important thing is to find and nuture the good, enjoyable matches. I've found over and over that one person's great client is often another's royal PITA-- and vice-versa.

slc2
Aug. 1, 2007, 03:21 PM
i think the OP had to realize her account would generate a great deal of trainer bashing and sympathy.

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"
Aug. 1, 2007, 03:22 PM
I will say that I am not always on time for my lessons.

This is because I am about an hour's drive away, on the worst highway (people have major accidents here if it just drizzles, and there's also major construction going on, so you just never know, and there is no good alternate route).

This is also because I don't have a set time to leave each day. If a crucial experiment goes awry, if a grant is due and the server is down, if a student is having a crisis, I have to come through. One time I was leaving for a lesson when power in the building went out, and I needed to be on hand to see how much damage had ensued when we had a power surge and the power came back on (if it was going to...sigh).

In these cases, I call. But if the trainer is down at the barn, and no one's in the house, and I can't reach anyone else...well, them's the breaks.

But fair's fair. The trainer often runs late, as she gives to each whatever they need, depending on horse, rider, weather, etc. And if she's on time, and I'm late, well, I still owe for her time. If she needs to finish up and cut my time, well, so be it.

On the other hand, I take 2 lessons a week, always alert her if I am going out of town or I am sick, and am always willing to rearrange lesson times to fill up gaps if needed.

This is the price I pay for choosing to board my horse at a place so far away. And I suppose, for choosing the career that I did.


I'm sure my trainer knows my lessons are important to me, and I mean no disrespect if I am late. I try very hard not to be so

mp
Aug. 1, 2007, 05:04 PM
I think the situation can be summed up this way:

What we have here is a failure to communicate. :yes:

HP, I'll go along (more or less) with the rest of your post, except for:

Apparently it is a student's fault if she has hard to catch horses? Since when?
Well, yes, it is. Just as it's my fault if my horse is a pig for the farrier or leads like a barge. That's a training issue that no one should have to put up with and one the owner should address ... or pay someone else to.


The only complaint that made sense is if checks didn't clear and money was owed.
This "you have my money, don't you?" attitude is one I don't appreciate in my own field and I would never treat my instructor that way.

slc2
Aug. 1, 2007, 05:08 PM
This "you have my money, don't you?" attitude

unfortunately, a person only wants to kiss *** for money for so long...being in I.T. is finding out it's much longer than you thought....:lol:

ditto

goeslikestink
Aug. 1, 2007, 07:59 PM
wait up

the trianer doesnt have to tell everyone one what shes does in her private life

the trianer is a porffesional perosn that has time slots - like dentist doc, appointments etc

if the time slot - was there and horses werent ready then thats dwon to the owner and not the trianer----

if you want her to catch them up then pay her so -

if its not stated in the training being done then the trianer isnt at fault


and if it was me and i had a trianer come to my yard i would take pride in my horses and making sure they looked good ---
cause if you got a decent rider on top any bloming horse can look good
but ten times better with good clean horse and tack


plus i owuld want to be therre watching-


also if boven has full livery ie does nothing except ride her horse
then the b/o should have got the horses in ready and only if its stated in the livery contract as again this could be classed as an extra service

ie bring horse in for vets farrier and trianer and get ready
cleaned and tack up caught and put back in feild $50
that would be a cluase in the contract as extra charge for whatever

but like in a diy yard kids go for holidays now they get paid to turn x amount of horses out and bring in x amount of horses gives them a bit of pocket money the top yard kids charge £3.00 per day with rug change
and skip out stable and feeding- there 70 livries up the top
and 10 kids share it in the holidays they also pooh pick for a fiver per hour


what iam trying to get over unless you paid for that extra service
of catching the horses up either by a l yard kid barn owner or trianer
its an extra service

boven -- just becuase you pay - doesnt mean you get - xyz unless it stated


and not all people if not stated are mind readers of your needs
barn owner s have more than one horse and each clients needs plus the safty of it all

and was she insured to catch your neds are you insured if anything went worng-- two way thing

and i think if i was called names i think i owuld be a bit defensive
and speak up--

i said dont chase ---------- you kept ringing and she said shes on vacation

so why didnt you leave a message and wait--
or why didnt you discuss it with her if she dont want to trian you
becuase the time ort having to catch your horses and not being paid for this extra service - then so be it --
easy come easy go no biggy get on with life

LookinSouth
Aug. 2, 2007, 11:11 AM
Me thinks you take this stuff much too seriously. The only time I felt naked and exposed was when my breeches ripped.

ROTFLMAO :lol::lol:

EqLuvr
Aug. 2, 2007, 11:47 AM
I too was floored that the trainer had the gall to post a laundry list of complaints about the student, and I do feel badly for the OP.

I don't know why she couldn't just return the gal's emails and phone calls and settle it. Getting on this board to defend herself was just ridiculous, especially her superior and snide comments.

Is it that much trouble to return someone's call or email and tell them it's not working out, you're too busy, whatever chicken!@# fib (i just got TEN horses in full training, no time...) --- i.e. you can't work with the person again.

OP, good riddance to bad rubbish. I'd be glad to be rid of her. I wouldn't try to change for her, move on and move up. Some folks are taking the side of the trainer, but missing the fact that she could have LET YOU KNOW that she couldn't/didn't want to continue work with you.

Sorry you're now regretting posting here, this isn't always a very warm and fuzzy place. Unfortunately, that's the way it is on the Internet - once it's out there, you cannot take it back. Have no shame - it's the trainer that came out tarnished on this one.

Sister Margarita
Aug. 2, 2007, 01:39 PM
Being a trainer requires experience, good judgement and communication skills.

I can't be sure about the said trainer's experience, but posting a more personal and defensive, specific complaint list in a response to what appeared to me to be a more general "did I goof?" question with student also taking responsibility for the problem that student was AWARE of (hint, trainer: communicate if there are more problems), would certainly indicate that the good judgement and communication skills part is in need of further development by said trainer.

There are some qualities that FOR ME are essential to be a trainer.
1. Experience
2. Judgement
3. Ability to Communicate
4. CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION OF PROBLEMS.

I too would hope my student/client would communicate directly with me. It sounds like the student tried to do that with the trainer not reciprocating.

Step back and look at the big picture. Who is hanging out a shingle that says they are a professional? Clients are usually not always up to speed on a trainer or barn's protocol. It is up to the trainer to show the way on that, to communicate or correct in a professional manner.

If the trainer wanted to resign from her position with the OP, then a short, honest call, letter, email would have sufficed. The OP posted due to the LACK of communication from the trainer after she made an effort to clear up the situation.

slc2
Aug. 2, 2007, 02:03 PM
for those who thought the trainer acted low class, and didn't think the op was same for posting a note guaranteed to generate 'jerk trainer' responses, i ah...am not finding any principal heros in either action. BOTH should have kept it private.

flshgordon
Aug. 2, 2007, 03:44 PM
Totally disagree SLC.....the OP did not to me generate a "the trainer is a jerk response" (of course we only had to wait to hear from the trainer herself to confirm that)....it actually made me think "well at least the OP is trying to figure out how to fix the relationship before it all goes down the tubes"

slc2
Aug. 2, 2007, 03:57 PM
i see it differently than you do. i see it as a person who made an issue public that she should have kept private. and a trainer who did the same.

EqLuvr
Aug. 2, 2007, 05:47 PM
Not sure how it's public since no one's names were mentioned.

I don't know who these people are.

Just a random trainer and student to me.

OP was trying to get clarification on what she was feeling ~ "snubbed by the trainer" ~ and she got that clarification in spades. She WAS snubbed by the trainer, so her gut feeling was right.

egontoast
Aug. 2, 2007, 10:09 PM
This, from page one, may have set the tone.


I pay on time..show up for lessons ready to go and last time I checked I was the one forking over the $$$$$. I like to give my business to someone who wants to help me instead of acting like "they're doing ME a favor" by showing up

Hmmmmm. I think maybe you burned your bridges there, bovine, based on the history of the matter, even using your version..

BarbB
Aug. 3, 2007, 12:06 AM
There are some qualities that FOR ME are essential to be a trainer.
1. Experience
2. Judgement
3. Ability to Communicate
4. CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION OF PROBLEMS.


It's a RIDING LESSON, it's not the priesthood. :rolleyes:

goeslikestink
Aug. 3, 2007, 02:29 AM
This may be more of a vent than anything else but it's really bumming me out. For whatever reason the person I've been taking lessons with has decided to NOT return Phone my calls.

shes getting married - doesnt have to tell you her reasons why no returned calls-- bit obvious wedding are nevre racking things
all that preparing and last minute to do's


She did respond to one email to say "thanks for the check but she would not be available to give me a lesson on the date I requested".

could it be that she actually got married on that day

I've called and emailed her a few more times to find out when she would be available but so for have heard nothing!! It's been over a week and she has never not returned calls or emails before.

honeymoon------



I know she got upset because she came to ride for me while I was on vacation a few weeks back and twice the horses we're not in there stalls ready for her and there was some confusion but I paid her anyway because she did come out and spend time trying to "catch' the horse even if she didn't ride . (my bad)



did you make proper arrangements with barn owner or someone to bring the horses in for her when she did arrive and did you pay her for this extra service
was this mentioned on the phone to her before you went away so if there was a possiable problem then it was dealt with before you went off on holiday and wouldnt have been an issue

So I'm bummed because I really was learning from her and making progress. Am I getting the brush off here. I know she's going on vacation later this week but it's still not like her to not respond

as i said the trianer doesnt have to ask your permission if they on holiday
or getting married or tell you whats happening in her private life
if she said shes wasnt available on that date - then it stands to reason
that you was told as you also know shes away as above you have menioned that so its not if she didnt pre warn you of her holidays

so why chase on the phone when you know shes not there or want be taking calls
shes getting married --- plenty of arrrnagements matey your is on the back burner - of a call



. Could the situation involving the horses not being ready for her cause her to act this way. If so, isn't that a bit ridiculous.
. I feel like I've been pink slipped even though I'm the one signing the checks.. :no:


no but if she was getting married and you constantly called when you have been informed of her holiday and that person is trying to get married and have all the stresses and strains of having a good old day and trying to please everyone
your constant calling isnt going to help -- as you knew she wouldnt be roound
you may sign the check but you dont own the trianer
like you sign the check for vets farriers and doc you have an appointment for work that was done --

its not a snubb but rather a bit of space needed for important event in ones life--



just mis intrepretation and any actions now have ended what was a good thing - all becuase you both of you couldnt talk enough or get to know one another perhaps a little better -- then perhaps it would wish her well in her marriage rather than where is she--
you know if you wanted to really correct this and still have her as trainer
you could

its a mis understanding thats all --on both parts as it takes two to tango

dalpal
Aug. 3, 2007, 03:01 AM
QUOTE=BarbB;2601733]It's a RIDING LESSON, it's not the priesthood. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I totally agree....I don't understand why anyone should feel they HAVE to teach someone if the relationship isn't working between student/teacher.

Perhaps she knew she could cut back on students once she got married....now who would she cut first....the respectful, on time, pay on time, have horse ready, no stress client.....or the client who you have to chase down for money, impatient, doesn't have horse ready, changes schedule, oh and complains about you on a public BB. That's a no brainer.

Sorry, but if you open yourself up on a public BB, the person you are complaining about, may possibly find out about it and share their side of the story.

fish
Aug. 3, 2007, 09:14 AM
It's a RIDING LESSON, it's not the priesthood. :rolleyes:

Whew. Thank you! That post really had me going for a moment!

slc2
Aug. 3, 2007, 10:31 AM
"Not sure how it's public since no one's names were mentioned."

and yet, somehow, the trainer did divine that the post was about her :D

"anonymity is just not that anonymous"

Sister Margarita
Aug. 3, 2007, 10:59 AM
Whew. Thank you! That post really had me going for a moment!

Since when is expecting this and paying for a service that requires the aforementioned "priesthood". Its a service job. Trainer provides service, client pays for said service based on trainers abilities in those areas, if trainer or client don't want to continue due to not seeing this eye-to-eye, deal with it one-on-one. OP had a question, Trainer does not return calls/emails and airs out personal details on a BB. Sounds like a great trainer.

EqLuvr
Aug. 3, 2007, 12:07 PM
Since when is expecting this and paying for a service that requires the aforementioned "priesthood". Its a service job. Trainer provides service, client pays for said service based on trainers abilities in those areas, if trainer or client don't want to continue due to not seeing this eye-to-eye, deal with it one-on-one. OP had a question, Trainer does not return calls/emails and airs out personal details on a BB. Sounds like a great trainer.

Exactly, I totally agree.

Professionalism and communication - try it sometime it works!

coriander
Aug. 3, 2007, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Margarita View Post
There are some qualities that FOR ME are essential to be a trainer.
1. Experience
2. Judgement
3. Ability to Communicate
4. CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION OF PROBLEMS.



It's a RIDING LESSON, it's not the priesthood.

Absolutely, Barb B, you are right on the money. But, then there are those who believe that:


riding dressage, in a way, is about as naked and exposed and flawed as a human being ever gets to be in front of anyone else, and the trainer or instructor is the one who gets to see the rider, in all his glory, the good, the bad and the ugly - his tears, his confusion, his fears, his frustration, and at times, his misplaced emotions.

when one takes dressage, there are many things about one that come under the magnifying glass. in a way, it's like creating art, and you're drawing on a canvas with your personality, and the result is your horse and how he goes. what happens then becomes extremely personal and for many people, a source of very intense emotions.

it can be a great experience for the person who is comfortable with change and growth. but it is rarely without mistakes, without pain, without change, or without embarrassment.


So perhaps some folks just don't want their colonocsopy put on a billboard?? Or BB. :lol::lol::lol:

I just couldn't help myself.

class
Aug. 3, 2007, 12:29 PM
riding dressage, in a way, is about as naked and exposed and flawed as a human being ever gets to be in front of anyone else, and the trainer or instructor is the one who gets to see the rider, in all his glory, the good, the bad and the ugly - his tears, his confusion, his fears, his frustration, and at times, his misplaced emotions.


the priesthood would actually be a piece of cake in comparison.

coriander
Aug. 3, 2007, 12:56 PM
the priesthood would actually be a piece of cake in comparison.

I'd think the priesthood would be more like a relief in comparison.

slc2
Aug. 3, 2007, 01:22 PM
carry on, i have popcorn. laugh now, but i bet quite a few people get about that cathected (or more), at shows, clinics, even lessons, i think that since i've been seeing it for many decades. i'm not saying they should view it that way, in fact, quite the opposite. there is a lot to gain by not doing so. and, sure, while sunning oneself and drinking wine coolers one can wax pretty lyrical about how cool one is about it, but go to a show or clinic and see what yiou see.

AnotherRound
Aug. 3, 2007, 01:45 PM
Oof!

Lori
Aug. 3, 2007, 02:03 PM
A semi-colonoscopy is when they do the job half a$$ed.


:)

AnotherRound
Aug. 3, 2007, 02:18 PM
semicolonoscopy - actually, the priesthood is an interesting comparison...

hitchinmygetalong
Aug. 3, 2007, 02:19 PM
carry on, i have popcorn. laugh now, but i bet quite a few people get about that cathected (or more), at shows, clinics, even lessons, i think that since i've been seeing it for many decades. i'm not saying they should view it that way, in fact, quite the opposite. there is a lot to gain by not doing so. and, sure, while sunning oneself and drinking wine coolers one can wax pretty lyrical about how cool one is about it, but go to a show or clinic and see what yiou see.

Sounds like you've had a bit too much sun yourself. Care to translate the above for us common folk? I've read that post five times and I can't make heads or tails out of it. :lol:

egontoast
Aug. 3, 2007, 04:54 PM
Slic's been struggling with the alcohol issue for a while. I am sending her jungles.

fiona
Aug. 3, 2007, 05:04 PM
Would snubbing her help?

Kathy Johnson
Aug. 3, 2007, 07:35 PM
Only if she is snubbed to a post, just to keep it horse related. Just kidding of course. My two cents: I think it's perfectly Ok that original poster gave her version of the story, and perfectly Ok that the trainer came back with hers. Turnabout is fair play. It is probably more clear communication than they have had in a long time, and that's good. In the meantime, it was entertaining, yet educational. I learned once again that there is nothing you should say on a BB that you wouldn't say to the person's face.

Heart River
Aug. 3, 2007, 08:01 PM
"Cathected" - is that when you're catheterized, and then they dissect you?

Or maybe it has something to do with the Pope.

hitchinmygetalong
Aug. 3, 2007, 08:22 PM
"cathected" is a pretentious way of saying "emotionally involved" :winkgrin:

dray
Aug. 3, 2007, 09:49 PM
Kathy Johnson...agree...exactly my point in pages past...communication. Might or not add cahticized to vocab.

Samsmyhorse
Mar. 21, 2008, 10:56 AM
:)

I'll have to mention that on the colonoscopy (http://www.colonoscopyforum.com) discussion forum I go to.

TSWJB
Mar. 28, 2008, 12:55 PM
I think the trainer acted 100% unprofessional. Not returning calls or a vague brief email is not what I consider acting in a professional manner. If this woman was a PITA and the trainer decided that she did not want to work with her anymore, she should have picked up the phone and ended it. Letting the person know in private why she would not work with her anymore. If she had done this, the OP would have not started a post and she would have moved on to a new trainer.
If like others mentioned, she was unsure of continuing on and needed some space to think, she should have told OP that she needed some space to re-evaluate the relationship. And these are the reasons she was re-evaluating the relationship.
Just not returning calls is being a coward.
I feel the OP did not air dirty laundry. She was upset and was wondering what to do and sought out advice. Once again, if the trainer acted in a professional manner, this thread would never have been written.