Market for a 15.2 hand stallion??? is there one?

[Horsecrazy27]

What do you think? In general--no matter what discipline you were in. Example: You breed dressage horses, would you look at a dressage stallion that was 15.2? Same if you were jumpers, eventing and hunters.

Okay---sorry....the sports of the above/warmblood/warmblood cross/irish horses/honeys/pony's/TB;s, Arab Sport horses---and any horse that is used for the above sports. NOT saying that there are not any other sports but those---but, those were the ones that I was thinking about when this question came into my head. NOT intended to offend anyone---it is a real question for me. Thank you have a great day!!!

[VirginiaBred]

That is a very general post. For what discipline???

[buschkn]

I wouldn't consider him unless I had an absolute behemoth of a mare. The market for horses in that size range is not very good, so unless I had a really big mare I wanted to decrease the size on, I don't think I'd do it. And I think that might be a little big for pony breeding, but maybe if you used a really small mare, not sure.

[Janet]

It would depend entirely on what he had ALREADY produced.

Edited to add-
That INCLUDES the HEIGHT of his offspring.

In particular, I am thinking of a TB stallion that belonged to MAD's family that was quite small, because he was a twin. But his genes were not "small", and his get were not small, even when crossed with pony mares.

[pintopiaffe]

Absolutely, if he was the right stallion. I really don't want anything above 16.1 or 2. I have two 16h mares. 15.2 is a great size, in my opinion, especially if he's got a great build and takes up leg.

I am getting more into Iberian breeds & crosses for just that reason.

I don't think the general WB market, and definitely not the top competition market, is quite as accepting--there is still very much a 'bigger is better' mentality, but there's a slowly growing market for horses more suited to smaller or average riders.

[kookicat]

Ditto Janet.

If he was producing nice horses and had everything else I wanted, then yes, I would likely breed to him. Eventing is one sport where size dosen't matter all that much.

[inca]

Depends on whether I am breeding for myself or to sell. The market for horses under 16hh is not so great and that makes them harder to sell.

So, if I had a large mare and was looking to breed for myself, I would consider a 15.2hh stallion IF he had great conformation, nice gaits, good bloodlines and a performance record.

But, I wouldn't even consider breeding to a 15.2hh stallion if I was planning on selling the foal.

[eqsiu]

I checked the Yes, size is not a concern for me, but it really is. If I was breeding for myself, my goal would be 15.2-15.3 hh. So a 15.2 hand stallion would be ideal. However, when breeding horses to sell it would not be so great because people seem obsessed with huge horses.

[A. P.]

Ummm... Arabians, many quarter horses, Morgans - heck, in many breeds that height is average or even above.

Likewise for difference disciplines: endurance riders favor smaller horses, as do reiners, polo players, etc.

Since when did 'sport horse' come to mean only hunter/jumper/eventer/dressage?

[Mav226]

...endurance riders favor smaller horses, as do reiners, polo players, etc.

Since when did 'sport horse' come to mean only hunter/jumper/eventer/dressage?

I see what you mean, but I think it was sort of a logical assumption since COTH generally caters to those disciplines; whereas they don't generally cover reiners or polo ponies.

[VirginiaBred]

For pony breeders this size stallion would be very attractive.

[Shawnda N]

Last year I gelded a very good "honey". He had everything going for him, except for height. With all the costs and work in keeping an Approved Stallion (I would never stand a non-approved stallion), having a 15.2 hh stallion would not be worth the effort for the small number of breedings he would get. Even stallions that are 15.3 hh to 16.0 hh have a tough time getting mares. The market for Warmblood Horses favors stallions in the 16.1 to 16.3 hh range. Yes there are some really good stallions that pick up a lot of breedings that are just outside of that range, but its not common.

[carolprudm]

I had trouble deciding between#1 and #4 and ended up going with #1. Two stallions I seriously considered this year were Tre Awin Goldsmith and Triple Twist and will quite possibly breed to one or both next year and they both are in that size range.

I think people, particularly older female adult amies are starting to look at smaller horses.

[Oakstable]

The size of the horse should be proportional to the size of the rider for maximum effectiveness of the leg.

Arbitrary decisions on what is marketable needs to be rethought.

There is a Rotspon son standing as a stallion. I think he is bigger than 14.2 1/2 and he certainly has some size in his pedigree rather than Welsh ponies.

I think the growing trend for sport ponies should be a sign that there are smaller riders, not just children, but smaller women. Or boomer women who don't want to risk the long trip down off a 16.2 horse.

As long as we keep repeating that there is a limited market for a honey, it is self-fulfilling.

Teddy O'Connor is evidence that the horse with big talent doesn't realize he shouldn't be able to do the work.

[sblake]

This is one of Reta Conners stallions (Ponderosa Performance Horses). I don't think she has any problems selling his foals.
Susan



INXCESS (Imported Dutch Warmblood)
15.3 hands * Bay and White Pinto
Inxcess represents strong and proven foundation bloodlines. This amiable stallion has repeatedly produced quality horses with expressive, correct gaits and outstanding temperments that match their athletic ability. Inxcess produces 50% color.

[Horsecrazy27]

This is one of Reta Conners stallions (Ponderosa Performance Horses). I don't think she has any problems selling his foals.
Susan



INXCESS (Imported Dutch Warmblood)
15.3 hands * Bay and White Pinto
Inxcess represents strong and proven foundation bloodlines. This amiable stallion has repeatedly produced quality horses with expressive, correct gaits and outstanding temperments that match their athletic ability. Inxcess produces 50% color.

Thanks---yep...know this horse. A friend of mine did breed to him.

[carolprudm]

The size of the horse should be proportional to the size of the rider for maximum effectiveness of the leg.

Arbitrary decisions on what is marketable needs to be rethought.

There is a Rotspon son standing as a stallion. I think he is bigger than 14.2 1/2 and he certainly has some size in his pedigree rather than Welsh ponies.

I think the growing trend for sport ponies should be a sign that there are smaller riders, not just children, but smaller women. Or boomer women who don't want to risk the long trip down off a 16.2 horse.

As long as we keep repeating that there is a limited market for a honey, it is self-fulfilling.

Teddy O'Connor is evidence that the horse with big talent doesn't realize he shouldn't be able to do the work.
And Seldon Seen, EGB and his daughter Tilly, and Marcus Aurelius, and I could name more if I wanted to go back farther.

The Rotspon son Ridley
http://members.aol.com/dutchsporthorses/fair-windsfarm.html

[flypony74]

Unfortunately, everyone thinks they have to have a big horse nowadays. Personally, I much prefer a smaller horse, and am very much attracted to a stallion in that size range because I don't want a great big baby. My mare is bred to a 15.3 hand stallion who has a mountain of talent, a good show record, great conformation (that compliments my mare), and a fabulous disposition....the whole "package" in a size that is just right. I feel lucky to have had the opportunity to breed to him.

I think a lot of folks think that size equals performance ability. Not true!

[tnscvaga]

voted, yes. I have bred my 15.1 hd TB mare to a 15.3 hd TB(2006 foal) and to LLDM's 15.1 hd guy(for a 2008 foal). The 2006 foal looks like he is headed towards 16 hd or taller. He'll eventually be for sale if he does mature to that height. I'm not so short that I can't physically manage a >16 hd horse, I just prefer not to. Riding the 15.1. hd mare for as long as I did, changed my mind about smaller horses.

[rcloisonne]

15.2 is the ideal sized horse to me (I'm 5'6"). I won't consider anything > 16H. Why do so many believe bigger is always better? Must be the "Supersize Me!" influence. :cool:

[Eclectic Horseman]

15.2 is the ideal sized horse to me (I'm 5'6"). I won't consider anything > 16H. Why do so many believe bigger is always better? Must be the "Supersize Me!" influence. :cool:

Well, small horses have to be just that much more athletic and talented to jump the big jumps and gallop as fast as the big guys. There is no margin for error for the little fellows.

In dressage and endurance I don't think that it matters performance wise, but a large horse has a larger market because even kids seem to be very tall these days!

[carolprudm]

Well, small horses have to be just that much more athletic and talented to jump the big jumps and gallop as fast as the big guys. There is no margin for error for the little fellows.


Just how much extra length would an additional inch or two of leg add? One could just as easily say a big horse is more clumsy. It depends on the individual. as one of the posters says "It's not the size it's the stride"

[Eclectic Horseman]

Just how much extra length would an additional inch or two of leg add? One could just as easily say a big horse is more clumsy. It depends on the individual. as one of the posters says "It's not the size it's the stride"

That's true. Bigger horses usually have bigger strides in my experience. Not always, no, but most of the time.
:rolleyes:

[Janet]

Well, small horses have to be just that much more athletic and talented to jump the big jumps and gallop as fast as the big guys. There is no margin for error for the little fellows.

In dressage and endurance I don't think that it matters performance wise, but a large horse has a larger market because even kids seem to be very tall these days! Conversely, the small horse is more agile and can make sharper turns more easily. Also, the smaller horse has less weight stress on the legs, so is more likely to stay sound.

[Daydream Believer]

15.2 is too big for me! I like my stallions between 14 - 15 hands for our breed.

[cheekyhorse]

I'm finding the market has swung a little lately to favor the average sized horse. I think that alot of people (especially women) have realized how much work a large horse is to ride. I know I did!! My last horse was a solid 17 hands, and now that I have an average sized horse, I realize what I was missing. Pacific will finish out around 16 hands, and that is plenty big enough for my 5'7" self. He has the girth size to take up my long leg, I certainley don't look too large on him and he's almost 15.3 right now. He has a large stride, almost as big a stride as my 17 hand horse did, but the best part of it is, he is very agile and athletic. Not at all clunky or heavy or strong. It took EVERYTHING out of me to ride my last horse, whereas I'm still feeling really good when I get off Pacific. Overall, especially for hunters and dressage horses, I find that the 15.2-16.1 hand size is perfect for those disciplines for most people. Jumpers I can see the added height being an advantage. My biggest worry is the longevity of those big horses. They don't seem to last as long. Just my 2 cents. Way too many people out there overhorsing themselves.

[Oakstable]

In SoCal, Dory Brenneman, a trainer, is showing a Welsh pony at I1. She got 71% at the triple rated show in Highland a couple weekends ago. She is slender, but not tiny.

Jaye Cherry shows Chardonnay, a German sport pony, in the open classes at the LAEC. I haven't seen her in person in many years but I would not call her petite at all.

And Teddy O'Connor is my small horse poster boy.

[LLDM]

Well, I'm still in the very early stages of this game, so I'll have to let you know how it works out for me! It's still, at least partly, pwynn's fault for encouraging me!

SCFarm

[Centerline Farm]

No, not ever for the market. Anything under 16 hands is the kiss of death to sell, no matter how nice. And I still get way more calls from people wanting larger (16.3+) horses than I do smaller (16h).

However, for myself I like 16 - 16.1. That is the perfect size. Any smaller and it just doesn't feel as solid and it feels like the suspension and floating feeling when the horse is under and balanced just isn't there. I do not like the 17 handers either.

So either way I would not breed to a 15.2 hand stallion.

[Sassenach]

Of course I'd consider him if he met my criteria.

Honestly I don't get the American 'Bigger is BETTER' mentality. 17++ handers make me dizzy and I am a small girl - 4'10 so 15.2 and under is the perfect size for me :winkgrin:

In Europe horses seem to be 'handier' sized - you really don't seem to see the 17 hand stallion advertised that much and if you do they are usually swamped in a sea of 15.3-16.2.

Bigger is not always better.

If they can get the job done I don't give a hoot what size they are.

[Horsecrazy27]

Thanks for imput!!!!!

[avezan]

I voted "No, I would not look at a 15.2 stallion". BUT... I bred to a 15.1 stallion this year. The mare is 14.2 and she herself was a homebred by a 15h stallion. So, I either lied in my vote or I'm being a hypocrite. ;) I love small horses, don't get me wrong. The 14.2 mare was my eventer. I'm 5'8". I wish I had had a Teddy poster when we were competing to inspire us. I had a Lendon Gray poster. :) I'm digressing. Back to the poll...when I am breeding "sport horses" to sell, I would not consider a stallion under 16h. I think the majority of the buying market is looking for something in the 16-17h range. And for me, I'm going to market to the majority. I had a 15.1 OTTB that was a phenomenal jumper. He had perfect conformation, a wonderful willing temperment and very nice movement. Here is a picture (http://www.vtosaddlery.com/Perfectjump5.jpg) of him jumping. I could not sell him to save my life. If he had been 1 hand taller I could have sold him in a heartbeat for a lot more than I was asking. I had a lot of people inquire and say, Is he REALLY only 15.1? I even had people come out to try him and be disappointed with how small he was. They thought he "looked bigger" in the photos. There definitely IS a market for smaller horses. I had quite a few calls from people looking for a horse under 16h. But that market is so small, and when selling, you are playing with odds, and with that small market, the odds are not good. I did end up selling him to a smaller adult who just adores him. But he got chalked up in the "loss" column for me.

So would standing a 15.2h sporthorse stallion be profitable? There is definitely a niche market for smaller horses. But it is a small market. You would have to get an owner who is breeding for themselves. Most breeders are going to be breeding for something larger to sell. I bred the 14.2 mare to the 15.1 stallion for my sister, not to sell. If someone could corner this niche market, it could definitely be profitable.

[ise@ssl]

Because we breed WB's and own a GRP stallion we wouldn't consider a 15.2 stallion. I don't know of any WB registries that license stallions that small. We've produced "honies" by GRP stallions out of a variety of mares and they are marketable and actually becoming more popular. Many riders want the WB movement but don't want a 3 step mounting block to get on a 17+H horse.

[Thomas_1]

I've checked yes too.

There's a heck of a lot I'd consider over and above the height of a horse but if I'm looking to use a stallion of a breed such as a t/b and its true to the breed standard by being 15.2 then there's no reason at all why I wouldn't want to use it.

[Eclectic Horseman]

Conversely, the small horse is more agile and can make sharper turns more easily. Also, the smaller horse has less weight stress on the legs, so is more likely to stay sound.


It is not just a question of height, it is also a question of weight and overall size. The ratio of horse weight to rider weight makes it less forgiving for a rider to ride a small horse. In other words, if the rider's balance is less than perfect at any point the smaller horse will be more negatively effected by it.

Personally, if I am going to be jumping 4' 6" fences in less than perfect footing or at speed, I'd rather have a horse under me that can trot a 3' 6" fence. Not many 15.2 or 15.3 hand horses can do that.

I agree that horses that are much over 17 hands can be difficult for the average size rider to put together. Like large or overly tall people, they can clumsy, less sound etc. But horses between 16 and 17 hands seem to be the most serviceable for sporthorse purposes.

And for sales value, again, I see an awful lot of teenage girls who are 5' 9" and up these days. They are simply not going to make a pretty picture on a horse under 15.2.

[Tiki]

Jumpers I can see the added height being an advantage.Personally, if I am going to be jumping 4' 6" fences in less than perfect footing or at speed, I'd rather have a horse under me that can trot a 3' 6" fence. Not many 15.2 or 15.3 hand horses can do that. Then there was Stroller. I believe he was 14.3 and he beat the big guys many, many times over fences. I saw him at Madison Square Garden at the Nationals in the 60's and he was absolutely awesome.

Then there's Teddy. He came in 3rd at Rolex against the big guys.

Then there's that New Forest pony in France. I forget his name right now - competing successfully against the big guys.

There are lots more that are very, very capable. Forrest Flame, FS Daily Hero, Art I Decked Out and other ponies/honies that I certainly don't mean to slight - just can't remember all their names, jumped the exact same jumps in stadium jumping and cross country that the horses did at their stallion performance tests.

I'm starting to breed cob-sized Warmbloods now - my top quality WB girls to top quality GRP's and Lesley's outstanding New Forest boys and I've already had a lot of interest from smaller women who can't wait to see what I produce.

[Janet]

Then there was Stroller. I believe he was 14.3 and he beat the big guys many, many times over fences. I saw him at Madison Square Garden at the Nationals in the 60's and he was absolutely awesome. Won the silver medal in Mexico City behind Bill Steinkraus. I believe some of the fences were 6' (higher than the current specs, at any rate).

[Eclectic Horseman]

Yup. There are always exceptions, but they prove the rule, they don't change them.

[Tiki]

Not really. It's a matter of so many people THING bigger is better and won't try smaller. When they do the OFTEN win!

[Janet]

Personally, if I am going to be jumping 4' 6" fences in less than perfect footing or at speed, I'd rather have a horse under me that can trot a 3' 6" fence. Not many 15.2 or 15.3 hand horses can do that. You would be surprised.

There are LOTS of 15h 2" to 15h 3" horses that can very happily and easily trot a 3'6" fence. And lots of 16h + horses that can't. While they both can do it, I feel a LOT more confident trotting a 3'6" fence on Belle (15h 2"-) thatn on Music (16h1"+)

Yes, "on average" if you do a statistical analysis, more of the 16h+ horses will fit the criteria than 16h- horses. But you don't ride "the average". You ride the individual horse.

Besides MOST of us (and most of the people who buy from breeders) aren't planning on jumping 4'6"courses. A horse that easily and safely jumps 3'9" has enough scope for MOST of us.

[Janet]

It is not just a question of height, it is also a question of weight and overall size. The ratio of horse weight to rider weight makes it less forgiving for a rider to ride a small horse. In other words, if the rider's balance is less than perfect at any point the smaller horse will be more negatively effected by it. You know, I would have agreed with you -

Until I lost my horse, and was offered a free lease on a 14h3" Anglo-Arab x Trakehner.

I would never have BOUGHT a horse that height, but once I started riding him, he didn't FEEL small. We competed successfully though Training level eventing (3'3" "at speed" and on "less than perfect footing). I am not small- 5'6" and on the "chunky" side - and he was really no more sensitive to my weight and balance than the bigger horses I have ridden before and since.

[Eclectic Horseman]

You know, I would have agreed with you -

Until I lost my horse, and was offered a free lease on a 14h3" Anglo-Arab x Trakehner.

I would never have BOUGHT a horse that height, but once I started riding him, he didn't FEEL small. We competed successfully though Training level eventing (3'3" "at speed" and on "less than perfect footing). I am not small- 5'6" and on the "chunky" side - and he was really no more sensitive to my weight and balance than the bigger horses I have ridden before and since.

Someone always has an anecdote.

Again it is the weight RATIO that is important (obviously as well as the strength, balance and coordination of the individual horse.) But if you are on a small horse where your body weight is 15-20% of the horse's weight, you will have more influence than if you are on a larger horse and your weight is 10% of the horse's weight. If you are an advanced, balanced rider, the difference is not that important unless something goes wrong and you and/or the horse lose your balance for some reason. There is just less room for error on a smaller horse.

By the way, I am only 5', 110 pounds. I loff riding smaller horses--for me they are so much easier! I am not bashing them. I just do not believe that people only THINK that larger horses have an easier time as performance horses. Particularly in the money making sports, people would not hesitate to ride smaller horses if they thought they would have a better chance to win.

[Janet]

And for sales value, again, I see an awful lot of teenage girls who are 5' 9" and up these days. They are simply not going to make a pretty picture on a horse under 15.2. THAT is the crux of the matter. LOOKS. And it isn't even always that they "don't make a pretty picture" but they THINK it won't be a pretty picture. (The pictures of me on Moo are on another computer, but it really WAS a "prety picture".)

But as I said, I wouldn't breed to a 15h2" stallion unless I was impressed with what he produced. I wouldn't rule him out BECAUSE he was 15h 2". But he would "have something to prove" in comparison to the larger horses from the same bloodlines.

After all, Northern Dancer was 15h2" and that didn't stop people breeding to him.

[Dawn J-L]

I actually like that I can be more subtle with my weight aids on a smaller horse. :-)



(Circumstances have put me on a green 14.0H mare as my main riding horse for now; I am greatly enjoying the ride.)

[MagicRoseFarm]

I think that voters who are more hunter oriented will vote differently than those in dressage or eventing worlds.

I am early in the game to find out if our 14.3 hand 4 yo stallion is as marketable as I think/hope. He is a very big mover in a small package with talent in so many directions we are not even sure which to pursue to his best advantage.
However we have bred him to ponies AND to 16.3 hand mares, so we feel he has several markets.

[carolprudm]

Won the silver medal in Mexico City behind Bill Steinkraus. I believe some of the fences were 6' (higher than the current specs, at any rate).


And Little Squire

[florida foxhunter]

I have a friend who has (had) a 15.2 (tops) half TB Paint Stallion who was awesome.....he started eventing with a trainer who Started EVENTING at age 58,.. and won nearly everything entered........all the way through preliminary. (was NOVICE Champion for the US.......Area Champion, etc.) I think his prelim year he only pulled one rail in Stadium....and it was the rider's foot, not the horses!! He had great form, nice conformation and a great heart...........but no one would breed to him because of his size! I think he only missed the blue ribbon five times in his career!! (and was always in the money!!)

She ended up gelding him, and now has frozen semen and a WONDERFUL gelding who is now taking care of his turning sixty year old owner in the jumpers!

Unfortunately, SIZE did matter for this remarkable horse.......

[Silver Sport Horses]

I think it is unfortunate that people over look the smaller horses due to trends or what trainer pushes the students to buy. I really think we are missing out on a great group of horses for the average size rider. I love riding a 15.2 hand horse. Big enough I don't feel like I am too big for the horse but small enough to manage and train. I am just under 5'6".

I have a 15 hand stallion with a huge stride. I am pretty much keeping him for myself right now because as many have pointed out size does seems to matter :) I feel his future taller offspring will be the more marketable ones even though he has wonderful gaits, use of body and overall athleticism.

A couple things I think we do have to keep in mind (1) stallions don't generally reach the height that they would have had they been gelded and (2) it is about athleticism, use of body and stride. If the smaller horse can do the job and uses himself well and passes that along to the foals I would rather use him then a taller horse that is mediocre in how he uses himself.

I do hope there will be a market swing to the medium sized horses. As another poster point out the baby boomers are getting older and don't want so much horse anymore.

Height doesn't always mean better just a bigger drop to the ground.

[ChelseaR]

If he has the size and can make the stride and everything else is exactly what i am looking for. I find that smaller horses tend to stay sound longer anyhow... I like them about 16.1/2 ish personally but 15.2 isnt too small

[janderegelaar]

I would never use a small stallion unless he has qualities I can find nowhere else.

If you breed your horse to a 15.2hh stallion or any other stallion who resizes the foal, genetics are going to get mixed up.

For example: if the foal of this 15.2hh stallion mature a normal size between 16hh and 16.2. The progeny of this horse, even when bred to a big horse, can become small.

So using a small stallion or a stallion that appears to throw small youngstock is even more gambling then breeding.

What's the use of years of genetical selection if you can destroy it with just only 1 covering.

If you check various sale site's you see a lot of youngstock for sale where they say "he will mature 16hh". I don't believe it but if they say "he will mature 15.2hh" the market is a whole lot smaller.

[carolprudm]

I would never use a small stallion unless he has qualities I can find nowhere else.

If you breed your horse to a 15.2hh stallion or any other stallion who resizes the foal, genetics are going to get mixed up.

For example: if the foal of this 15.2hh stallion mature a normal size between 16hh and 16.2. The progeny of this horse, even when bred to a big horse, can become small.



Why do you think "normal" is 16 to 16.2? That may be average, but to be outside the average is not necessarily abnormal.

[Janet]

I would never use a small stallion unless he has qualities I can find nowhere else.

If you breed your horse to a 15.2hh stallion or any other stallion who resizes the foal, genetics are going to get mixed up.

For example: if the foal of this 15.2hh stallion mature a normal size between 16hh and 16.2. The progeny of this horse, even when bred to a big horse, can become small.

So using a small stallion or a stallion that appears to throw small youngstock is even more gambling then breeding.

What's the use of years of genetical selection if you can destroy it with just only 1 covering.

If you check various sale site's you see a lot of youngstock for sale where they say "he will mature 16hh". I don't believe it but if they say "he will mature 15.2hh" the market is a whole lot smaller.
I think it makes a BIG difference whether you are breeding for a performance horse, or breeding for "breeding stock".

[Eclectic Horseman]

I think it makes a BIG difference whether you are breeding for a performance horse, or breeding for "breeding stock".

Or breeding for SALE. If you are breeding for YOURSELF (i.e., for performance) you may be confident that your selection of sire and dam will give you the characteristics that you want regardless (or inclusive) of size.

But if you want to sell the foals or get breedings for a stallion, then obviously you've got to go along with what the demand is or you'll be out of business.

[janderegelaar]

That's also my point.

Go for different search options on a sales site and most of the time it's under or above 16hh.

So unless you are keeping all your horses for over 20 yrs you should breed big.

I don't know how it is in the US but in Europe 15.2hh ( we call it E- pony ) is hard to sell.

[Dawn J-L]

Or if you are breeding a breed where 15.2H is actually considered TALL ;-)

[janderegelaar]

Or if you are breeding a breed where 15.2H is actually considered TALL ;-)

Let's say pony breeding if for a child to ride.

Here every pony higher then 14.2 but smaller then 16hh is not allowed to enter the pony classes so have to compeet with big horses and then appears to be to small. These ponies most show so many extra to have a change of winning. Once you have a very good pony he's not allowed to compeet FEI levels dressage because he's a pony but...he also not allowed FEI levels with a child because because bigger then 14.2hh he is considered a horse.

So in the US it might be no problem if a horse breeds small but here we preffer not to breed between 14.2hh and 16.hh

[Dawn J-L]

I wasn't referring to breeding children's mounts, but to breeds (non-WB's) where 15.2H is tall for the breed. For instance, I breed Arabians for sport (dressage) and 15.2H is actually a *desirable* height for that niche market (a small niche but a growing one).

In the wider sport horse market here in the US there are beginning to be more adult riders (primarily women) who are looking for "smaller" mounts (15H to no more than 16H) because they find them to be "handier". Still, it's just a growing trend and generally brings less $$. Perhaps as more of these "small" horses are competed successfully, talented smaller horses will increase in value.

[Amchara]

There is a large Connemara Stallion I like, he is advertised at 15.2H

(I know he isn't a "large pony", but a large-sized connemara)

[Sassenach]

There is a large Connemara Stallion I like, he is advertised at 15.2H

I was just about to say that.

What about the pony stallions who go oversize to 15.2 or 15.3 (it has happened) would they still be useful to breed crossbreds - especially if they are from lines known to throw big or are they in limbo too with no real 'market'?

[carolprudm]

I was just about to say that.

What about the pony stallions who go oversize to 15.2 or 15.3 (it has happened) would they still be useful to breed crossbreds - especially if they are from lines known to throw big or are they in limbo too with no real 'market'?
Lots of Greystone Mc Errill offspring out there. There is a 15.2 Connemara stallion who was my second choice to breed Bonnie to this year, and I might well use him next year.
The midsized Connemara crosses do very well in competition.

[Sassenach]

Lots of Greystone Mc Errill offspring out there. There is a 15.2 Connemara stallion who was my second choice to breed Bonnie to this year, and I might well use him next year.
The midsized Connemara crosses do very well in competition.

While I would personally never use a 15.2 hand Connemara stallion (unless my mare was around 13.1 :winkgrin:) - I like my ponies to be pony-sized.

That's when breed-standard comes into play for me. We are breeding ponies NOT horses :no:

A TB/Warmblood/Other breed stallion whose height fit the breed standard I would use though

That being said a friend of ours has a mare out of a Connemara stallion who is 15.2 - Irish stallion - but does not seem to ever throw back his height - his mare is 14 1/2 hands and does not reflect the height of her sire.

[wlrottge]

For us, we need larger horses. I'm 6'2 and my wife is 5'11. That being said, however the sire of our 3yo is only 15.1-2. We would not normally consider a small horse like this, but... since he's a twin and his full brother is 18hh.... we figured we were ok ;) (The 3yo is ~16.2 now)

For some reason we don't understand, he was registered and approved as a breeding stallion with the sport pony assn (by one of his previous owners).... b/c I doubt he'll ever throw a pony sized horse.

[Sacha]

When I came to sell my 15.2hh hanoverian Weltmeyer gelding, I had so many enquires from small lady dressage riders looking for movement, temperament and ability in a 15.2hh package. Sold him easier than my 17.0hh dressage horse.

[TouchstoneAcres]

The question is too general! 15.2 is perfect for a Lipizzan for instance. A 16.2-17h Lipizzan is too big for the classical breed. It is probably fine for Morgans, and I suppose Arabians. It is a little small for TB but not if the mare is large. Warmbloods are not all there is.

[foxhavenfarm]

I have a 3 y.o. TB stallion that is currently 15.2. He may grow another inch or so... or he may not...we shall see.

This is him: Creator (http://foxhavenfarminc.com/creator.html)

[carolprudm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolprudm http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=2522316#post2522316)
Lots of Greystone Mc Errill offspring out there. There is a 15.2 Connemara stallion who was my second choice to breed Bonnie to this year, and I might well use him next year.
The midsized Connemara crosses do very well in competition.
While I would personally never use a 15.2 hand Connemara stallion (unless my mare was around 13.1 :winkgrin:) - I like my ponies to be pony-sized.

That's when breed-standard comes into play for me. We are breeding ponies NOT horses :no:


But I am, and I do go for oversized Connemaras to cross, though height in Connemara crosses is not all that predictable. My Greystone Mc Errill (15.3) daughter out of a 15.3 mare grew to 14.3, while Dallen Mc Mor, 14.2, himself a son of McErrill, bred to my 15.1 Hay Hook mare produced a 16 + hand colt, inheriting the grand parents size.