Arabians & Endurance

[2869]

First let me say I am not an endurance rider but there is a mare in our barn that has done at least one Endurance ride at Fair Hill. She may have done more. The owners of the horse are thinking about selling her and have asked for my help.
Are Arabs a desirable horse for endurance? And if so, where might I find other websites catering to the Endurance horse.

Mods: pls delete if you feel this crosses the line. Im not advertising since they havent decided to sell but more what is the marketability

[Renae]

Arabians are THE endurance horse. There is not a breed of horses in the world that can consistently best the Arabian at endurance. Here are a few places to start on yur informtaion quest:
http://www.arabianhorses.org/default2.asp
http://www.aerc.org/
Do you know the horse's registered name? If so PM it to me and I can look up her show/ride record if she has any recorded with AHA.

[2869]

Ranae: thank you for the info. I dont know her registered name unless it is the same as the barn name which is "Lace".
Are there particular blood lines that stand out? I was told she is very well bred, in fact the original owner was going to use her as a brood mare before the owner fell ill. Im waiting for the current owners to get me that information.

[islandhorse]

Go to www.endurance.net for more information on endurance and also they have a very popular classifieds section including 'Horses for Sale', which of course is mostly Arabians. I believe Classified listings are only a few dollars and include pictures. I would definetly list the horse if you are gearing it towards an endurance or distance riding home.

Endurance people tend only focus on bloodlines related to endurance (not the show ring). But most importantly is confirmation, temperment, and movement/way of going (which sometimes is the opposite of what they look at in the show ring).

[islandhorse]

If you do find out who rode her in the endurance ride, go to: http://www.doublejoy.com/erol/Individual/RiderHistory.asp .

If you find out her registered name or name she used when competiting (There are lots of horses with the word "Lace" in them with endurance histories), go to: http://www.doublejoy.com/erol/Individual/HorseHistory.asp

[Renae]

LOL everyone and their cousin thinks their Arabian is well bred :lol: As Christina said compeltely depends on your viewpoint in the Arabian world as to wether your horse is well bred or not.

[A. P.]

It also depends on what the arabian is bred for. There are lines of arabs that are specifically bred for halter/model classes that are extremely 'typey': super dished faces, fine bones, bug-eyed, swan-necked that are useless for endurance (or any other athletic endeavor).

[islandhorse]

A.P. - don't forget the itsy-bitsy tiny hooves and small nostrils - UGHHHHH

[2869]

AP: that is exactly how I would describe her. She is beautiful, has a cresty neck, dishy face and is fine boned. Her mom won on the line at Devon. and yes, tiny feet!

[Romantic Rider]

Um... just cause an Arab is 'halter' pretty doesn't mean they can't do endurance. My little Arabian mare has as many or more halter horses as performance horses in her background. She is not, super, super typey. But she is typey. She has a very graceful neck, beautiful dished face, large eyes, and is finer boned than the majority of endurance horses. Compared to most endurance horses, she is classy. Now, I've not taken her 50 yet. She's only 7, and is a little small for me. But she can consistently top ten L.D. rides. And she absolutely loves it. She's about the gamest little mare I've ever ridden. In fact, she's far more gutsy than my Mom's horse who was bred and is built purely to go the distance. What she doesn't have in bone she more than makes up for in heart and want to. Now, she does have good feet... but I still made my point.

[saratoga]

AP: that is exactly how I would describe her. She is beautiful, has a cresty neck, dishy face and is fine boned. Her mom won on the line at Devon. and yes, tiny feet!


I have an Arab mare like this too. She was mainly bred for halter, I believe. She doesn't really look like the typical Arab that is considered the ideal for endurance- with a lot more bone, bigger feet, more of a "coarser" look. But we've done 2 LDs so far and she is working out great. I dont know how she would do with Top Tenning, but I'm not interested in that, so its all good.

[islandhorse]

Endurance people tend only focus on bloodlines related to endurance (not the show ring). But most importantly is confirmation, temperment, and movement/way of going (which sometimes is the opposite of what they look at in the show ring).

If you review endurance horse classified, you will see seller's spouting out cannon bone sizes (bigger the better), shoe sizes (bigger the better), way of going and temperment. When the buyer comes to see the horse in person, they will take into consideration nostril size and heart girth, among other things. A major PLUS of course would be a "pretty" or "beautiful" arabian (who wants an ugly one?). This could certainly mean a dished face. Swan necks are great IMO, but they still need to know how to stretch out to eat up the miles (you can't do an 15+ mile trot with a vertical head and exaggerated swan neck). But no one want a ewe-neck because that mean the horse is not carrying himself correctly.

If you already have a fine-boned, small-hooved, show-ring typy arabian, go for it. But if you are trying TO SELL that horse TO AN ENDURANCE (50+ miles) HOME, I don't think you will have a lot of takers. You may have a little more success if your market the horse as an LD horse "perfect for junior or small female".

[southernhighlander]

i don't think arabs are that good for endurance i think the appy and the mustang are better horses for endurance and the appy has carried a home and a family on it's back and travelled 2 thousand miles in under 2 weeks.

[Romantic Rider]

You are entitled to your opinion, of course.... but I dont' believe the vast majority of endurance riders would agree with you. ;)

[Prieta]

That appy's feat is admirable and awesome; however, this appy might be an outlier in endurance world. Just count how many Arabs and Appys complete LD and 50s, then we can say something. This Appy ought to be more well known for her feat in taking care of the family! :D

[southernhighlander]

prieta and romantic rider we have this talk all the time here in new zealand and the appy's did what i was talking about back when the indian wars was going on.also i think there are more appy's finishing better condition than the arab.

[Romantic Rider]

I honestly don't know what endurance riding is like in New Zealand, but I can say for absolute certain that in America the Arab is THE endurance horse. And even in Europe I believe. Almost all I see are Arabians or half-Arabs. I have seen a few Apps, but they don't do nearly as well as the Arabians. If you look through Endurance News magazine for the top placings in whatever, they are pretty much purely Arabian. And when is the last time an App or Mustang won the Tevis Cup or the World Equestrian Games ride?? Never, that I can think of. So I think you need a whole lot more proof before you go saying Arabs don't make the best endurance horses.

[Auventera Two]

I don't think a horse has to be a puke to be a good endurance horse. I've seen some lovely, typey horses whose owners compete them in various things, including endurance. My Arab is quite typey and elegant but she's a worker. She's not "exotic" but she's typey. She's only done one official LD ride, but she's got many training miles under her belt. She can go and go and outpace most horses I ride with. She's a "halter barn drop-out" and didn't have the exotic look they were hoping for so they put her on the market cheap. She's heavily halter bred, but she's fairly big and solid at 15 hands, and over 1,000 pounds. I realize this is not a big horse, but for an Arab, she's good sized.

She's smart and quick witted, she is surefooted as a canyon mule, and isn't afraid to ford water or climb hills. I've tailed up on her a few times on training rides, and I think she'll prove to be a solid endurance horse for me.

I get a lot of compliments on her flashy good looks and conformation. I even had a guy say to me once "Boy, something that pretty oughta be packaged and put on a shelf to look at."

But she's most definitely a working horse. She has physical athleticism and mental aptitude that I've found hard to match in a horse. I've had quite a few horses and none have stacked up to the heart and mind this girl has.

[LMH]

Oh she is LOVELY! I bet you are having a blast with her!

[southernhighlander]

I honestly don't know what endurance riding is like in New Zealand, but I can say for absolute certain that in America the Arab is THE endurance horse. And even in Europe I believe. Almost all I see are Arabians or half-Arabs. I have seen a few Apps, but they don't do nearly as well as the Arabians. If you look through Endurance News magazine for the top placings in whatever, they are pretty much purely Arabian. And when is the last time an App or Mustang won the Tevis Cup or the World Equestrian Games ride?? Never, that I can think of. So I think you need a whole lot more proof before you go saying Arabs don't make the best endurance horses.


well to anwser your question about how many mustangs have won a tevis cup one in fact.1960 Ernie Sanchez Marko B Mustang G 13 and this is the one that won it.here in new zealand everyone use appy's and arab's also here is my proof that the mustang is better than the arab.
http://www.mustangs4us.com/adopt_a_mustang.htm

the arab maybe born in a desert,but the mustang has survival skills and also when they are born they are born straight into a endurance ride for their life from the start.
http://www.auburnjournal.com/articles/2006/08/01/news/top_stories/03tevis1.txt?pg=1

http://www.auburnjournal.com/articles/2006/08/01/news/top_stories/03tevis1.txt?pg=2


Montana SMR685, is the all time Top Ten Mileage Champion Spanish Mustang to date. He completed the Tevis Cup twice, the second time at age 19. His average speed was 12mph on 5 day rides, but he was clocked at 15mph in trott which was the speed at which he was overtaking cantering horses! In 1990 Montana clocked up 800 competitive miles in 60 days, and won the 500 mile XP Ride. He is now 29 and enjoying retirement in California.

http://www.spanishmustangs.org.uk/work.html

here is a link for the mustang montana.

and here is another link saying why the mustang is good for endruance.

http://www.spanishmustangs.org.uk/123.html

[southernhighlander]

http://www.frankhopkins.com/endurance.html

here is a link about another mustang and why some arab people think the arab is better.but these horses have gone passed arabs that were cantering and theses horses were just trotting passed.

[horselips]

i don't think arabs are that good for endurance i think the appy and the mustang are better horses for endurance and the appy has carried a home and a family on it's back and travelled 2 thousand miles in under 2 weeks.


"...and the appy has carried a home and a family on it's back and travelled 2 thousand miles in under 2 weeks."



Yeah. The Nez Perce Appaloosas. NOT the "spotted quarter horse appys" of today.


The only horse that rivals an endurance-type Arab is a Standardbred ex-racehorse. Those horses have some serious wind conditioning trained into them.

[southernhighlander]

that is true but in a link i posted on the last page i posted on how one mustang passed a arab at a trot and the arab was cantering.also most mustangs have finished in the top ten on most rides and finish in better condition than the arab.also most of the accidents on the trails seem to be arab horses.

[LCR]

If one is serious about endurance, there is no better breed then the
SHAGYA ARABIAN, which has been bred for 200 years to be a perfect
"riding type"!

Their record in endurance, when one considers it is such a rare breed (about 2000 worldwide) is excellent. HUNGARES, a Shagya gelding won the
WEG 100 mile race with a time of about 7 hours. A Shagya bred mare,
GEORGAT, won the 100 mile world championship and then the European championship the same year. FAYETTE DE CAMEO, won the Tevis race
and she was 7 months in foal.

They are a hardy breed, tough as nails and have excellent temperaments. You cannot be around one and not realize how special they really are. We just need more breeders to either breed their Arabian mares to a Shagya stallion or find one they can compete with.

[southernhighlander]

here in new zealand there are people that care about the arab but most endurance riders that i know and have meet say they are forgeting the arabs and going with appy's for endurance.for me i am wanting to import a few mustangs into new zealand to breed and use for endurance riding and to show the arab breeders here what mistakes they are making.

[Romantic Rider]

that is true but in a link i posted on the last page i posted on how one mustang passed a arab at a trot and the arab was cantering.also most mustangs have finished in the top ten on most rides and finish in better condition than the arab.also most of the accidents on the trails seem to be arab horses.

how one mustang passed a arab at a trot and the arab was cantering----

Is this supposed to make us all ooh and aah? For pity's sake, it's one horse. I'm afraid this is not very effective proof of any type.

also most mustangs have finished in the top ten on most rides -----
sorry, you are going to have to prove that, cause it's not what I see.

finish in better condition than the arab-----
show me the B.C. lists and I'll believe you.

also most of the accidents on the trails seem to be arab horses-----
THis is a very, very broad generalization gathered from a few selected reports. A fallacy in fact, and not very convincing.

Also, I can say for certain that no Appy has ever won the Tevis Cup. And quite honestly, one Mustang win out of 50 or so Tevis cups is not incredible at all.

[southernhighlander]

no appy has won the teivs cup that is true but you said nothing of the haggin cup which is awarded to the best condition horse of the event and a appy has won that 1969 Walter Tibbitts Ruff Spots Banner Appaloosa G 10 .

[Bensmom]

If one is serious about endurance, there is no better breed then the
SHAGYA ARABIAN, which has been bred for 200 years to be a perfect
"riding type"!

:yes:

Our new baby horses would like to say "right on, sistah!" :D

www.efduffy.blogspot.com

To be technically correct, mine is part-Shagya, and registered Hungarian Felver as well, but just an outstanding example of what these horses were bred for :D

Now back to the rest of the discussion :D

Libby (who never misses a chance to brag on the new babies!)

[LMH]

no appy has won the teivs cup that is true but you said nothing of the haggin cup which is awarded to the best condition horse of the event and a appy has won that 1969 Walter Tibbitts Ruff Spots Banner Appaloosa G 10 .

One time in ALL the years?

Honestly does it matter? If someone wants an arab-GREAT...if someone wants a mustang GREAT.

Why such a need to defend the mustangs and appy's and shun the arabs...especially when it is quite obvious arabs does a little 'ok' at the sport?

[Auventera Two]

The fat halter type, "Quarterloosas" are a whole different animal than the old fashioned native bred Appy horse. Unfortuantely, the former are very easy to find, and the latter are more scarce.

I think a person should happily compete on whatever they have, providing the horse is physically and mentally capable of the job. If not, then buy a suitable horse, pursue your goals, and have fun. I don't think Arabians are the only horse that can do endurance and be successful, though certainly they are the most numerable.

[Willobeasty]

Here's a link to the results of a 160Km (Ruahine Endurance 160 CEI) ride - can you point out the appaloosa horses who were the top finishers?

http://www.nzequestrian.org.nz/Resource.aspx?ID=2335

Looking at endurance farms in NZ, they are all standing Arabian studs, most of the bloodlines are easily recognized as those used in the states as well.

It is wonderful to ride your favorite breed and enjoy their character, but it is another altogether hold out false hope that they will re-invent the wheel for distance riding.

The sheikhs who have the money to burn for these things do occasionally buy Akhal Teke or TB horses to mix in a little to see what will happen...I know they bought a few AT's at one of the prominent stables a few years ago. But so far, I haven't heard that those crosses are burning up the sands either.

Wish I had the resources to indulge my curiosity like that!

You will find lots of mustangs in western endurance rides. Mostly in the LD and just finishers. They are after all even cheaper than Arabs! I live near and do some counting and mustering for the local Horse Management Area - believe me, the majority of "mustangs" are just....mmmm....not thoughtfully bred animals. And any advantages of being range bred and developing with lots of movement and rough ground is usually negated by the fact that they round up the young ones and adopt them out - they come into a paddock at about 6 months old, languish all winter standing around eating hay, and then are adopted in the spring. Doesn't build up any thicker bone from "travelling" than any well-bred youngster brought up in a pasture. Some are decent enough grade horses, but then decent grade horses are pretty easy to come by.

And Frank Hopkins! The ACTUAL Long Riders Guild was furious about the portrayal of that completely fictious campfire tale. http://www.thelongridersguild.com/hopkins.htm

[southernhighlander]

wlliobeasty that is only one event.

http://www.nzequestrian.org.nz/Resource.aspx?ID=1762
sundance kid is a appy

http://www.nzequestrian.org.nz/Resource.aspx?ID=2332

here is another horse that is an appy that has won the ctr champs and i know this person and she was happy in beating arab horses and now she is bringing on a younger appy for the endurance championship for next year.

[rcloisonne]

wlliobeasty that is only one event.

Check this:
http://www.foothill.net/tevis/

Click on “historical” which will bring up winners and best condition going back to the late 50’s. Yep, there was one mustang who won it in 1960. An Appy took best condition in 1969. Neither breed appears to be setting the endurance world on fire, I’m afraid.

Closer to you is the “Quilty”, the biggest and toughest endurance ride in Australia. From that site:

All breeds and types of horses can be used in endurance riding but the horse of choice is the Arabian. This is because the Arabian has evolved to travel long distances on very little sustenance. They have slow-twitch muscles designed for long distance work. All elite endurance horses are pure-bred or part-bred Arabians.

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/archives/2006/0602/006.shtml

And really, the Shagya is nothing more than a partbred Arabian. :winkgrin:

[southernhighlander]

tell me this then if the arab is so idea then why didn't the armies use them during the first world war insteading of sending tb's mustangs,walers plus brumbies and farm hacks answer me that.

http://203.147.158.98/military/msa.htm

here is a link of aussie brumbies and walers plus tb's with a bit of history on the charge they did at beersheba.

[southernhighlander]

also most people have forgotten that the armies used tb's and draft horses and not arabs because they were seen as been weak.

[ms raven]

I suggest you read about the influence of Arabian horses on nearly all other breeds, and their importance in war throughout history.

You are out to lunch.

[rcloisonne]

also most people have forgotten that the armies used tb's and draft horses and not arabs because they were seen as been weak.
Purebred Arabs were often considered too small to be used as military mounts for large men carrying a lot of equipment. They also used to be fairly rare and very expensive. However, any horse who can win an endurance race such as the Tevis carrying over 200# for 100 miles can not be considered "weak".

You sound like an ignorant breedist. Have you checked any of those websites I provided yet? Course not, you might actually learn something. Wouldn't want that! :rolleyes:

[Renae]

also most people have forgotten that the armies used tb's and draft horses and not arabs because they were seen as been weak.

The United States Army, Polish Army and Russian Army all used Arabians to upgrade the rest of their stock :yes: You have no idea what you are talking about. Purpose bred international level Arabian endurance horses sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars. You can get any mustang you want here in America for $125 from the BLM. If mustangs were such supreme endurance horses as a rule people would be snatching them up at that bargain price. They are not, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[islandhorse]

WHY is southernhighlander SO adamant about trying to convince the world that the majority of endurance riders have made a horrible decision in their choice of steed????

I suggest we just not respond to southernhighlander regarding this issue anymore because is quite apparant she will not be happy until "we" are all riding mustangs in endurance. Maybe some of us can get away with riding a brumby, appy, TB, or draft horse when all the mustangs are taken up? Ok, well, anything BUT an arabian.

[Romantic Rider]

I agree, this is perfectly ridiculous. I don't come to this thread to argue with someone who obviously has no idea what on earth they are talking about and won't listen to any real proof. Go ahead, southernhighlander. If you want to keep riding your Appy's, go ahead by all means. Let me know when you win the Tevis Cup, Old Dominion, AERC National Championships, WEG, World Endurance CHampionships, the Quilty, or get B.C. on any of those rides. Or for that matter, let me know the next time an Appy or Mustang period does anything that spectacular. Or once you come up with an explanation for why all but two or three of the Tevis CUp winners have been pure or part bred Arab. Or why Heraldic, a purebred ARabian, won the three most prestigious 100 mile rides in the U.S. last year, and got B.C. on all of them. Now, I know that is just one horse, but you have to admit that your Appy's and Mustangs have rarely won even one of those rides. Please don't call the Arab weak, that is sheer, unadulterated ignorance. I actually suggest that you just be happy riding your Appy's and Mustangs, and not try to make yourself the laughingstock of the entire endurance world.

Also, I know this has nothing to do with the point at all, but it just rather solidifies our view of your ignorance. You might try learning to type properly.

[southernhighlander]

if you look at my sig you will see that all horses came from america first before people shifted there to live and the horse shifted from america to the rest of the world and the proof is in the musems in america also of all the dna testing done on the bones of the old fossils of the first horse they have used all horse breeds in the states to see which horse is closes to the first horse and you know what the arab is no way near close to the first horse the mustang is the only one out of all the breeds of horses tested.

[Renae]

if you look at my sig you will see that all horses came from america first before people shifted there to live and the horse shifted from america to the rest of the world and the proof is in the musems in america also of all the dna testing done on the bones of the old fossils of the first horse they have used all horse breeds in the states to see which horse is closes to the first horse and you know what the arab is no way near close to the first horse the mustang is the only one out of all the breeds of horses tested.

You have no idea what a mustang even is!!! Mustangs are feral horses, a mixture of everything from Spanish Andalusians and Jennets of centuries ago to Belgians, Percherons and Clydesdales left loose/escaped from the last great decades of the use of equines in agriculture in America, the '20s, '30s and '40s. Mustangs can be anything from little ponies to stocky hairy good sized horses with the draft horse breeding very evident (huge bone, featherd legs, heavy built, definatly not the type of horses that win endurance competitions however hardy they may be). Mustangs are not a breed, it is just a word for all feral horses in the united States.

The animal the crossed the land bridge from North America to Eurasia so very long ago were the very rootest ancestors of the modern horse, and if you are looking for the closest living relative to that animal look at the Tarpan or Prezwalski horse, not the Mustang, which is essentially a mutt with the exception of a very few isloted herds, and those horses are Spanish, which goes back to the Arabians and Barbs of North Africa. If there were no Arabian there would definatly be no Mustang.

[southernhighlander]

read this and then weep.

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/features/109-fossils.shtml

also many native america indian tribes told of the horse coming home.

[SweetLatte]

Southernhighlander,

Although this article states that a young boy found the fossils of an animal which the modern horse evolved from, it does not make ANY claims that this animal is the same as the Mustangs of today, which did indeed descend from such breeds as Andalusions, Barbs, etc. brought over by Spanish Conquistadors that escaped or were set free.

So, to help simplify:
-The animals that eventually evolved into today's modern horses at one time roamed in North America.
-These animals dissapeared from North America.
-Horses did not appear in North America again until they were BROUGHT there.
-These horses that were BROUGH to America (Barbs, Andalusions, etc.) were turned loose, lost, etc. and bred amongst themselves.
-When previously domestic horses "turn" wild, they become "feral."
-These feral horses have continued to breed and survive while intermingling with other feral horses which have created what we call "Mustangs" today.
-The mustang did not CREATE any breed because it is CREATED by many other breeds.

[Renae]

read this and then weep.

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/features/109-fossils.shtml

also many native america indian tribes told of the horse coming home.

Weep about what, your lack of reading comprehension? Why don't you actually read a few articles on equine evolution, such as this http://horsecare.stablemade.com/articles2/horse_origins.htm
In North America all the horses became extinct as well, but more likely due to some mass contagium. At the end of the 15th century, when the first Europeans came to America, there were no horses; the cultural tribes of Indians (in today’s Mexico and Peru) did not have a name for the animal. The Spanish imported predecessors of all the horses in America for the first time. The runaway horses (also cattle) went wild on the pampas and soon proliferated into large herds, only to be caught later and again domesticated.

http://talkorigins.org/faqs/horses/horse_evol.html
In the late Pleistocene there was a set of devastating extinctions that killed off most of the large mammals in North and South America. All the horses of North and South America died out (along with the mammoths and saber-tooth tigers).

[islandhorse]

quite apparant she will not be happy until "we" are all riding mustangs

I told you so! He, He

I'm laughing so hard from all of you go back and forth, it looks like I'm weeping.

Renae, SweetLatte, Romantic Rider, I am amazed at your preserverance.

I'm guessing southernhighlander must have been expelled from the debate team at prep school and then slapped with a restraining order to boot???

[PalominoMorgan]

Don't feed the troll and sometimes they go away. If they don't the "ignore" feature is fabulous.

[Renae]

But it is absolutely amazing that this neophyte seems to think that Mustangs are some magikal creature that magikally escaped the mass extinction of all large mammals in North America and hid in soem magikal mountains for not just ceturies but entire eras of history and magikally reappearred because magikal spirits said so. Um, no.

Plain and simple the vass majority of Mustangs are mutt horses with no special distinguishing chracteristics. A few isolated bands, such as the Kiger Mustangs, that were kept pure by their isolation are most definatly Spanish horses, and the Spanish horses are very largely influenced by the horses of North Africa as the Moors invaded and controlled Spain for quite some time and the Moors had Barbs and Arabians!

[Renae]

I will add, perhaps in New Zealand Mustangs are magikal creatures like Magikal Gypsy Vanners are in America?????? My friend's mom is Cornish and she does not get what the big deal is about the "coloured cobs", and perhaps in the same vain their is some wise cookie down under tauting Mustangs as magikal creatures, friend and companion of wise sage Indians. They may be on to something. I think I will get some Mustangs and move to New Zealand and wear fetahers in my hair and say I am one of the Magikal descedndants of the Ojibwe that Leif Ericson met when he came to Minnesota and left the Kensington Runestone in what was to be Olof Ohman's field (thus explaining by Scandinavian appearance). Cha-ching I think my pay day has come in $$$$$$$$

[Auventera Two]

People are free to their own opinions. Even if those opinions have no basis in fact whatsoever. Who gives a rat's behind if this chick thinks Mustangs = The Holy Grail. No skin off my back. Or yours either! Ride your Arabs, continue to be successful, and don't waste your precious time and resources fighting with someone half a world away whom you don't even know, and who has no bearing on your life whatsoever!

As for me, I'll continue to ride my Arabian and train for endurance, and do my long distance rides, and marvel at her heritage, and everyone can do the same on whatever other horse they want.

Please guys, try to keep this board free of snarky cat fighting.

[RHdobes563]

Hey, guys, cut Southernhighlander a break, okay? She is what...10 years old? 12? And not an American, right? I couldn't tell you the history of the Maoris, anymore than she can give an accurate account on how our Native Americans domesticated their horses.

[horselips]

islandhorse wrote:

I'm guessing southernhighlander must have been expelled from the debate team at prep school and then slapped with a restraining order to boot???

I disagree. This sounds like a child and her My Little Pony meets The Saddle Club fantasies ~

This poster is closer to the mark, methinks.

Hey, guys, cut Southernhighlander a break, okay? She is what...10 years old? 12? And not an American, right? I couldn't tell you the history of the Maoris, anymore than she can give an accurate account on how our Native Americans domesticated their horses.

True. But the rest of us aren't trying to give wildly inaccurate info of the Maoris.

And I am of the belief that rude, pushy children should not be "given a break", but put in their place so that they may learn to interact with adults, as future adults.

[Dazednconfused]

Quick question...

Where did you guys get that she/he was 10 or 12? Her profile says she's a university student and 26... ;)

[Amchara]

Jk, Jk, Jk. I do have a soft spot for Ay-rabs in my heart

This list edited from:
http://www.foothill.net/tevis/

I won't comment on the "26" with those sort of typing skilllz :confused:.

1955 Arabian
1956 Arabian
1957 Arabian
1958 Arabian
1959 TB Cross
1960 Mustang
1961 3/4 Arabian
1962 3/4 Arabian
1963 Arabian
1964 Arabian
1965 Arabian
1966 1/2 Arabian
1967 Arabian
1968 1/2 Arabian
1969 Arabian M
1970 Arabian G
1971 Arabian
1972 Arabian
1973 Arabian
1974 Arabian
1975 Arabian
1976(Tie)
Arabian
Arabian
1977 Arabian
1978 Arabian
1979 Arabian
1980 Arabian
1981 Arabian
1982 Arabian
1983 Arabian
1984 Arabian
1985 Arabian
1986 Arabian
1987 Arabian
1988 Arabian
1989 Arabian
1990 Arabian
1991 3/4 Arabian
1992
(Tie)
Arabian M
Arabian
1993 Arabian
1994 Arabian
1995 Anglo/Arab
1996 3/4 Arabian
1997 Arabian
1998 Arabian
1999 Arabian
2000 Arabian
2001 Arabian
2002 Arabian/Shagya
2003 Arabian
2004
(Tie)
Aarbian
Arabian
2005 Arabian
2006 Arabian

[Romantic Rider]

Thank you for that list. It kind of proves a point... or would to some people. 26? uh-huh....

[RHdobes563]

Thank you for that list. It kind of proves a point... or would to some people. 26? uh-huh....

26

2 6

2 x 6

2 x 6 = 12

:D

[SMUK]

Hi there,
I am new here,...lured by the bickering about Arab vs everything else in endurance.
I breed Spanish Mustangs in the UK, but I am not going to say they are the best endurance horse. I am just starting with my Stallion, who is 5, and he is doing OK so far.
Here in the UK, most top endurance horses are not arabs. They are mostly mixed breeds. It is true, there are many arabs, and we also have the royal family of Dubai competing on their purpose bred arabs in FEI events.
Many people here in EGB are moving away from the Arab as an endurance horse though, for various reasons, some are temperament and soundness issues.

Some of the posts here fail to distinguish between the $150 BLM Mustang, and the Spanish Mustang. I specialize in the Spanish Mustangs, that have been chosen and bred for their genetic ancestry to the horses the Conquistadores introduced to the US as the "first horses" 500 years ago.
They were made up of Barb, Sorria, Iberian, Gennet and the Old Andalusian horse. The reason they are tough is because over that 500 year period in the wilderness, only the fittest survived in often very tough conditions.
By the way the Kiger is not accepted into the SMR because it is believed there was too much european influence in those parts.

No one has mentioned Geronimo's Warrior, a Spanish Mustang stallion who logged 10000 AERC miles between 2000 and 2004, and won the Jim Jones Stallion award 5 years running. But that is OK. He might not have won speed races, but he passed every vetting along the 10000 miles he completed. He is a breeding stallion that was only ridden in a rope halter.
I think that says everything about the temperament and toughness of these horses, don't you.

What is important is that everyone has to make their own choice about which horse breed best suits their needs and go for it. Every breed has its merits and its faults.
This discussion is a bit like trying to convince someone that their religion is not as good as yours.
Enjoy the horse you have. If you are thinking of buying an arab, see if it suits you in temperament and whether you like each other.
To excell in endurance, you do not need to have an arab though! Many other breeds do just as well with the right training and the right rider.

To compete in endurance at international level, you need to have a lot of money behind you and time! That is possibly why not more Spanish Mustangs are seen competing at that level...we are all poor breeders!!:)
It would be interesting to see though...

To really assess the merits of other breeds vs arabs, one would have to set up an experiment whereby say 3 or four top international riders each take on a different breed for training and then go for a 100 miler. That would be the true test.

[Auventera Two]

No one has mentioned Geronimo's Warrior, a Spanish Mustang stallion who logged 10000 AERC miles between 2000 and 2004, and won the Jim Jones Stallion award 5 years running. But that is OK. He might not have won speed races, but he passed every vetting along the 10000 miles he completed. He is a breeding stallion that was only ridden in a rope halter.
I think that says everything about the temperament and toughness of these horses, don't you..

10,000 competition miles in 4 years and never got a "did not finish" for ANYTHING? Completed every race he ever entered? Would love more information - never heard of him.

There are always stunning individuals in every breed that can accomplish things beyond their realm, but that is no indication of what the breed is capable of on the whole.

[Auventera Two]

To really assess the merits of other breeds vs arabs, one would have to set up an experiment whereby say 3 or four top international riders each take on a different breed for training and then go for a 100 miler. That would be the true test.

Actually, the "true test" has already been completed and the results are in. Arabians are the #1 competition horse for endurance riders. Years and years of data proves this point.

I always root for the under dog, and I love it when I see some other breed excel in something it wasn't bred for. We all love that. It gives us that warmy fuzzy that Seabiscuit did, or Alec with the Black Stallion, or the pig in Charlotte's Web. Humans love for an underdog to win.

But that really doesn't change the fact that Arabians have been the breed of choice for distance riders since the inception of the sport.

[Eventer55]

Yep, if you look up Geronimo's Warrior you will see that he did indeed win the Jim Jones stallion award 5 yrs running and logged in more than 10,000 miles with AERC.

[Renae]

To really assess the merits of other breeds vs arabs, one would have to set up an experiment whereby say 3 or four top international riders each take on a different breed for training and then go for a 100 miler. That would be the true test.

The U.S. Army used to do such tests wen horses were still used for calvary to decide what breed to invest in to upgrade calvary stock. The winners were consistently Arabians, with Morgans and Thoroughbreds and the occasional Saddlebred doing well.

[Auventera Two]

Yep, if you look up Geronimo's Warrior you will see that he did indeed win the Jim Jones stallion award 5 yrs running and logged in more than 10,000 miles with AERC.

But she said that he passed every single vet check. Failing a vet check means getting pulled from a ride, so I assume that this horse has never failed to complete any ride - ever? In all his 10,000 miles?

[SMUK]

The U.S. Army used to do such tests wen horses were still used for calvary to decide what breed to invest in to upgrade calvary stock. The winners were consistently Arabians, with Morgans and Thoroughbreds and the occasional Saddlebred doing well.

It is also known that the Army had to resort to using Mustangs to even be able to keep up with the Native Americans. The cavalry mounts just couldn't keep up with the tough Indian ponies, which were none other than the original Spanish horses..., the cavalry mounts of the day could not survive on bark, moss and scrub out on the prairies, nor could they cope with the footing.


I still think that it is very much a personal choice which breed to go for, but I do believe if a Spanish Mustang were to be trained by a top endurance rider, there would not be much between the arab and the Spanish Mustang, neither speed nor endurance wise.
This fact has been proven in the past by Kim Kingsley riding a Spanish Mustang called Chief Yellow Fox
1989 winnings include :
MNDRA Grand Champion Hwt. Endurance
UMECRA Grand Champion Hwt. Endurance
UMECRA High Mile Endurance Horse (1200 miles)
UMECRA High Point Endurance Horse and Stallion
AERC Midwest Region Hwt. Grand Champion
AERC Midwest Region Overall Grand Champion
AERC 2000 Mile Award Recipient
AERC Jim Jones Award Winner (1500 miles)
AERC Top Ten National Senior Mileage (1500 miles)
AERC Top Ten National 100 Miler Award

Kim wrote this about Chief Yellow Fox:
"Fox and I traveled to five different regions of the AERC to ride seven 100 milers, ten 50 milers but due to rider error, we did not finish them. All of this riding took place in six months and two weeks. Fox carried 247 pounds the entire season."
"We ended up Top Ten in six of the 100 milers and three of the 50 milers. One cannot forget that in order to get all these rides Fox had to be trailered about 15,000 miles, and trailering takes its toll after awhile."

Kim Kingsley beat mostly arabs in his rides!

I want to ad that Spanish Mustangs are now a rare breed, and that not many breeders or owners are at all competitive. That does not mean that the horses they have could not go out and win an endurance race.

These horses represent a vital part of American history. The USA would not be what it is today without these horses. They are a part of US history to preserve and be proud of. They were the first cow horses, the Pony Express pony, heck they helped discover the continent. Their blood flows through many of the modern American breeds. Every American should be proud of them and support the breed. Arabs are ten a penny and to be found on every corner. The Spanish Mustang used to number 100s of thousands and today there are only about 3000 alive. They are undervalued, underappreciated and underestimated.

Just because every other endurance rider has an arab, doesn't necessarily mean they are the best endurance breed. It is all down to the individual horse at the end of the day, not forgetting the rider. Just as not every TB can win the tripple crown!

[rainechyldes]

I don't think anyone is denying that there are spectacular athletes that can come from any breed at some point in time, and they have careers that leave me in awe.

The point for me is that on average most successful and long term endurance horses do tend to be of arabian blood or part bred. Take the list published above of winners of Tevis. I admit I also have more regard for horses that have a career in endurance that spans many years as opposed to the 1-2 year high and then never heard from again/ and that's regardless of their breeding. Some horses have incredible staying power, those imo are the real 'heroes' of the endurance world.

[Simrat]

SMUK forgot to mention Geronimo's Warrior, 5 time Jim Jones Award winner with over 10,000 AERC miles in 5 years.... He is a 13.2 hand SMR registered Spanish Mustang stallion who competed in the heavyweight division ridden in a rope halter. Look him up.

Now THAT'S staying power....

Edited to say...
Guess I should read the whole thread before posting. ;)

[rainechyldes]

you can also find staying power if you look that include arabs:) Harder to find because so many do compete in the sport. I know of more then a few arabian bred horses , whose endurance and CTR' careers span 20 years, one belongs to our family case in point. I competed with him, my father rode him at CTR national level and 50 milers- and then my much younger sister rode him in LD's -we retired him for a whole year *gasp* he's now being ridden by my son in LD's. Is he a top ten horse still..no. He used to be. Now he's a middle of the pack 28 yr old Arabian with a 7 year old riding him.
That's true endurance, if you ask me:)

[Barbhorses]

"also most of the accidents on the trails seem to be arab horses-----
THis is a very, very broad generalization gathered from a few selected reports. A fallacy in fact, and not very convincing. "

I just started reading this thread. About the above quote..Ummm I keep hearing about Arabs spooking and leaping to their death off of cliffs. I know of one Arab personally that took a leap off a smaller cliff and thankfully just rolled and was still alive. I read about an Arab jumping off a 200 foot cliff cuz he spooked up in Malibu. I also read about an Arab taking a leap off a cliff on the Tevis Cup. I'm sorry, but I would never want to ride a horse that is so unaware of his surroundings to leap to it's death from being spooked by something. I would ride a Mustang over an Arab any day of the week! From my personal experience, I would never trust an Arab. I have many reasons why I dont like Arabs and are most definitely on my #1 of least favorite breeds. There is a RARE chance when I come across an Arab that I actually like. I can only think of one 20 year old stallion that was not only (for once) eye pleasing to me, but not a nut case and was aware of himself. Whoever bred that horse I hope they are still breeding really nice Arabs! I am sure that the Arab was a great horse when they first starting importing them, but Americans have a tendency of ruining breeds (such as the German Shepherd and a whole other list of breeds) because of money.

My personal favorite breed is the Barb. I love the Mustang as well. One of the best rides I ever had was on a Mustang. NICE horse!

Kim

[rainechyldes]

Put the spooking and jumping off of cliffs in the right context:


Take every Arabian out of the sport- put all mustangs in the sport.
Guess what, you will still have accidents on the trail. Accidents will happen unfortunate, and it is not due to the nature of the breed it's due to the nature of the sport.

Feel free to ride any breed of horse you want on the trails, no one is saying 'you must have an arabian to participate'.

It's a sport. A highly intense one in fact for those of us to play to win. and most riders who do compete seriously will use an Arabian.

Your' Arabian accident prone' argument is a ridiculous one.

[rainechyldes]

Also as a complete aside.
the fall at Tevis I believe you are talking of, it the 'infamous' fall of 750 feet by Spider.

If you look it up, he stumbled and took a bad step and fell - he did not run off a cliff for no apparent reason. He was also found the next morning by his rider standing on a ledge near the river .
Eight weeks later he completed a 50.

wussy horse huh?:)

[Astraled]

Way to win friends and influence people, mustang/barb fans :rolleyes:. Running down other breeds is a surefire way to ensure people'll buy a mustang/barb from you :yes:.

[Simrat]

Way to win friends and influence people, mustang/barb fans :rolleyes:. Running down other breeds is a surefire way to ensure people'll buy a mustang/barb from you :yes:.
Please don't paint all of us Spanish Mustang enthusiasts with the same brush. We are not all like southernhighlander.

There are great horses of every breed and nutcases too! Even though my horses are very different than BLM mustangs, I will never put the BLMs down. Many are very nice and some well trained by their owners. The same goes for Arabs. :yes:

I guess we are just quick to defend our chosen breed and sometimes get over enthusiastic about it.:D That can come from having horses of a little known and often misunderstood breed. (Yes, they are a breed with a 70 year history that just celebrated the registry's 50th anniversary! Yeah!)

Go Spanish Mustangs!
Go Arabs!
Go BLM mustangs!

There. :cool:

[SMUK]

Yes, I have a part-bred arab mare here myself, and she is lovely!:winkgrin: Produced a cracking Sp. Mustang cross foal this year. Not knocking them at all. My point was only that Spanish Mustangs ARE a recognized breed, and that arabs are not neccessarily the be all and end all for endurance. Other breeds have just as much a chance of succeeding at the top of the sport as arabs do.:yes:

[Dazednconfused]

Yes, I have a part-bred arab mare here myself, and she is lovely!:winkgrin: Produced a cracking Sp. Mustang cross foal this year. Not knocking them at all. My point was only that Spanish Mustangs ARE a recognized breed, and that arabs are not neccessarily the be all and end all for endurance. Other breeds have just as much a chance of succeeding at the top of the sport as arabs do.:yes:

Prove it. More than two or three horses. Tevis, Quilty, etc - please note where more than a couple of non-Arab horses have won them? Nobody is denying that they can't be successful - but the chosen breed? Spanish Mustangs are not it by looking at the proof of statistics.

If we were talking hunters (of which there was a topic on this just a couple of weeks ago) - arabians would not be the end all, be all of that sport. For any reason. There are a few that are successful - but don't expect people to run out and buy arabs for the hunter division. When Tommy Serio, George Morris, Peter Pletcher, use thoroughbreds and warmbloods for their hunter and jumper mounts, that usually tends to mean something - and it's not "Arabians just haven't been discovered yet by those people" - it's about having the right horse for the job :winkgrin:

On the other hand, Arabians have proven themselves for decades upon decades as the superior endurance mount of choice by virtually every top endurance rider in the world - you really think they don't know what they're doing? And that arabians aren't suitable for the job?? Uh, right. :rolleyes:

"also most of the accidents on the trails seem to be arab horses-----
THis is a very, very broad generalization gathered from a few selected reports. A fallacy in fact, and not very convincing. "

I just started reading this thread. About the above quote..Ummm I keep hearing about Arabs spooking and leaping to their death off of cliffs. I know of one Arab personally that took a leap off a smaller cliff and thankfully just rolled and was still alive. I read about an Arab jumping off a 200 foot cliff cuz he spooked up in Malibu. I also read about an Arab taking a leap off a cliff on the Tevis Cup. I'm sorry, but I would never want to ride a horse that is so unaware of his surroundings to leap to it's death from being spooked by something. I would ride a Mustang over an Arab any day of the week! From my personal experience, I would never trust an Arab. I have many reasons why I dont like Arabs and are most definitely on my #1 of least favorite breeds. There is a RARE chance when I come across an Arab that I actually like. I can only think of one 20 year old stallion that was not only (for once) eye pleasing to me, but not a nut case and was aware of himself. Whoever bred that horse I hope they are still breeding really nice Arabs! I am sure that the Arab was a great horse when they first starting importing them, but Americans have a tendency of ruining breeds (such as the German Shepherd and a whole other list of breeds) because of money.

My personal favorite breed is the Barb. I love the Mustang as well. One of the best rides I ever had was on a Mustang. NICE horse!

Kim

Utter crap. Arabians are still and will always be fabulous creatures, with a few nutjobs here and there. LIKE EVERY BREED ON THE PLANET. That is extremely offensive to those of us who own arabians. You read about a couple of Arabs that fell or supposedly "leapt" off a cliff? Umm, ok, that makes it true :rolleyes: . And even if it is - two or three accidents on the trail out of the thousands of arabians competing and winning and taking fabulous care of their riders/handlers. How ridiculous can you be?! "Arabians throw themselves off cliffs, I read it so it must be true" What kind of crap is that? :mad:

[harvestmoon]

Um, where did they (Simrat and SMUK) say that the Spanish Mustang has performed better than Arabians? They are saying that, given a chance, a Spanish Mustang could do a good job.

I don't do endurance, but just looking at the results, it's clear that the Arab is the horse of choice. I don't think anyone is arguing that (except maybe southernhighlander). But, that's just how I'm reading it.

[Dazednconfused]

Um, where did they (Simrat and SMUK) say that the Spanish Mustang has performed better than Arabians? They are saying that, given a chance, a Spanish Mustang could do a good job.

I don't do endurance, but just looking at the results, it's clear that the Arab is the horse of choice. I don't think anyone is arguing that (except maybe southernhighlander). But, that's just how I'm reading it.

Well, no.

Other breeds have just as much a chance of succeeding at the top of the sport as arabs do

No, they don't. People (of any breed) frequently refuse to admit that there are chosen breeds for different disciplines - almost always for good reason. Warmbloods have been bred for decades to be top dressage horses - there's no reason an arabian, quarter horse, or pony for example couldn't make it as a dressage horse, even to the upper levels...but that doesn't make Anky run out and buy a quarter horse for dressage - we are talking about the top of the sport here (international/Olympic level). That would be the equivalent of Valerie Kanavy running out to buy a spanish mustang for her next endurance mount. ;)

[Pielover]

I've been to a lot of rides over the last few years , I've seen a handful of Mustangs , maybe 3-4 . I live 10 miles from a BLM holding facility and anyone can go get one for $125 . We have dozens of rides in this area yet 98% of the horses are Arabs or Part- Arabs . If people who compete in endurance , some with 40 year careers ride and breed Arabs there must be a reason for it . Take a look at what the very top riders are riding, it isn't a BLM horse , it's an Arab .

I also have 4 neighbors with BLM horses . Everyone has run through a fence not jumped, just run through the fence . Two have to be roped to be caught one can't be caught . One is now halter broke after a year of Natural Horsemanship . One who runs through fences and has to be roped can be ridden once you catch him . I have yet to see an Arab as crazy as these BLM horses .

[Simrat]

I've been to a lot of rides over the last few years , I've seen a handful of Mustangs , maybe 3-4 . I live 10 miles from a BLM holding facility and anyone can go get one for $125 . We have dozens of rides in this area yet 98% of the horses are Arabs or Part- Arabs . If people who compete in endurance , some with 40 year careers ride and breed Arabs there must be a reason for it . Take a look at what the very top riders are riding, it isn't a BLM horse , it's an Arab .

I also have 4 neighbors with BLM horses . Everyone has run through a fence not jumped, just run through the fence . Two have to be roped to be caught one can't be caught . One is now halter broke after a year of Natural Horsemanship . One who runs through fences and has to be roped can be ridden once you catch him . I have yet to see an Arab as crazy as these BLM horses .
One point that SMUK and I are trying to make is that Spanish Mustangs are not BLM horses.... but a breed with a long standing history that breeds true and has certain qualities that make it suitable for endurance. The fact that there are only a few thousand in existence, makes it a bit hard to compare their performance againsts other more numerous breeds, like Arabians. I am just asking that people not lump them together with the BLMs in discussion....

And if anyone would like a fun, usually sane mount to ride endurance on, you might consider a Spanish Mustang. ;)

[rainechyldes]

spanish mustangs may be a recognized breed, I don't believe anyone was ever disputing that point.

I have to repectfully disagree however that they can as a whole out perform the Arabian in distance sports.

The essential truth is, Arabians pure or part bred are dominating the sport and have been for a number of years (a long number) --there's a reason for that.

Would I trade my arabians for spanish mustangs-- highly doubtful, same as I wouldn't trade my TB/WB jumper for a (albiet oddly cute) gypsy vanner. I've yet to see a gypsy vanner in the international show jumping ring, until then, I'll keep what works.. it's the same case in point.

[Dawn J-L]

One point that SMUK and I are trying to make is that Spanish Mustangs are not BLM horses.... (snip)

An important distinction that deserves to be made. :-) Just like the distinction between the stereotypic crazy splindly legged, "living art "Arabian and the ones that make wonderful endurance mounts. ;-)

And if anyone would like a fun, usually sane mount to ride endurance on, you might consider a Spanish Mustang. ;)

Can you not see that how this kind of phrasing suggests that Spanish Mustangs are fun and sane as opposed to Arabians who by inference aren't fun or sane endurance mounts? Can't you guys figure out ways to promote these fine SM horses without embedded subtexts implying that Arabians are inferior? Particularly since Arabians DO dominate the sport of endurance, these stated and implied slams to endurance Arabians don't give you much credibility.

SMUK said: It is also known that the Army had to resort to using Mustangs to even be able to keep up with the Native Americans. The cavalry mounts just couldn't keep up with the tough Indian ponies, which were none other than the original Spanish horses..., the cavalry mounts of the day could not survive on bark, moss and scrub out on the prairies, nor could they cope with the footing.

At the time the US Army was using horses to pursue and harass Native Americans, there were only a handful of Arabians in the USA. It was in the early decades of the 20th century that the US Army used Arabians to improve the endurance and hardiness of their cavalry mounts. Two different eras, two different sets of worthy horses. ;-)

[harvestmoon]

Well, no.

M'kay.

No, they don't. People (of any breed) frequently refuse to admit that there are chosen breeds for different disciplines - almost always for good reason. Warmbloods have been bred for decades to be top dressage horses - there's no reason an arabian, quarter horse, or pony for example couldn't make it as a dressage horse, even to the upper levels...but that doesn't make Anky run out and buy a quarter horse for dressage - we are talking about the top of the sport here (international/Olympic level). That would be the equivalent of Valerie Kanavy running out to buy a spanish mustang for her next endurance mount. ;)

Obviously there are chosen breeds for certain disciplines. Obviously Arabians dominate endurance. But that doesn't mean other breeds can't slip through the cracks, so to speak.

[Astraled]

Can't you guys figure out ways to promote these fine SM horses without embedded subtexts implying that Arabians are inferior?Leaving out the actual texts stating Arabians are "ten a penny" with temperament and soundness issues to go along with a genetic compulsion to leap off cliffs would be kind of swell, too :winkgrin:.

[saratoga]

I have a friend who breeds Spanish Barbs (I think thats the same thing as Spanish mustang.) They are cute horses, most have lots of color- pinto, roan, gray, which is popular around here.

I really wouldnt say they excel at endurance as a general rule though. The 2 mares that she has done LDs/CTRs with are really different but neither one well suited for the sport. One is very high strung, race-brained, and she has only done 25s with her because she cant get the horse to settle down and is afraid that she would run into serious metabolic trouble with her on 50s. The other mare is the exact opposite- slow, fat and lazy. I would say that her horses tend to be that way as a general rule.

I have another friend who bought one of the babies- he is 3 now and she plans to do endurance with him. She is an Arab owner but fell in love with this horse because of his cool markings and thought she would try something different. So far, she says he is quieter and lazier than her Arabs; we'll see how he turns out.

Personally, I like Arabs for endurance. My 2 Arabs just have way more natural talent for long distance than my Tb. does. My Arab mare is not very spooky at all and strangely enough, my gelding is extremely spooky and just plain wacky at home- I think people wonder how he does 50s when he cant even go around the block without jumping out of his skin, but he is AWESOME on endurance rides- 100% steady and I would trust him on the most dangerous and crazy trails (and have!).

[Simrat]

Can you not see that how this kind of phrasing suggests that Spanish Mustangs are fun and sane as opposed to Arabians who by inference aren't fun or sane endurance mounts? Can't you guys figure out ways to promote these fine SM horses without embedded subtexts implying that Arabians are inferior? Particularly since Arabians DO dominate the sport of endurance, these stated and implied slams to endurance Arabians don't give you much credibility.I never meant to imply that Arabs were not fun and sane as well. No subtext intended at all! I guess I am just a pretty plain spoken person most of the time. :lol: Please don't put words in my mouth.

As I said before, I never denigrate a breed as a whole. Every group of horses has the better examples and the lesser ones or those with a screw loose. I've seen SMs on both ends of the spectrum too.

[Barbhorses]

Can you not see that how this kind of phrasing suggests that Spanish Mustangs are fun and sane as opposed to Arabians who by inference aren't fun or sane endurance mounts? Can't you guys figure out ways to promote these fine SM horses without embedded subtexts implying that Arabians are inferior? Particularly since Arabians DO dominate the sport of endurance, these stated and implied slams to endurance Arabians don't give you much credibility.


I am saying why I dont like Arabs from PERSONAL experience (and things I have read about them such as leaping off of cliffs and knowing an Arab that did that). I am not here to promote any breed (replying to this thread). I have only said things from personal experience with Mustangs vs Arabs. For me, Mustangs win. From personal experience, I come across many more safe and sane riding Mustangs than I do Arabs. All of my horse riding friends also do not like Arabs for the same reasons I do (that I am NOT sharing as I dont mean to bash the breed). I will be training Arab foals and will soon be living at a famous Arab endurance ranch(not giving the name out) while I go to school. I am training in exchange for rent. So maybe I will have a different opinion about Arabs. For now, I dont like them.

[Romantic Rider]

I feel kind of sorry for those Arab babies you will be training. You go there with the mindset that you don't like them, and therefore you won't understand them. Arabians are a wonderfully sensitive breed. They will know. :sadsmile:

[RHdobes563]

I will be training Arab foals and will soon be living at a famous Arab endurance ranch(not giving the name out) while I go to school.

Rushcreek?

[Dawn J-L]

I am saying why I dont like Arabs from PERSONAL experience (snip) All of my horse riding friends also do not like Arabs for the same reasons I do (that I am NOT sharing as I dont mean to bash the breed). I will be training Arab foals and will soon be living at a famous Arab endurance ranch(not giving the name out). So maybe I will have a different opinion about Arabs. For now, I dont like them.

As longtime horsewoman with experience with many breeds (including mustangs) and individual horses and now an owner of Arabians, I am *always* being told by folks who spout stuff about Arabians like you are doing, "I never liked Arabians, but yours are wonderful/friendly/well-mannered/athletic/easy to train/fun to ride/quiet minded, etc. (the list goes on and on...)" I would not be surprised if you do change your mind when you have experience with the good ones. ;-) Although those Arab foals will be smart, and aware, and will take note of your attitude towards them. Maybe you should pretend they are mustangs ;-)

I like a good horse of any breed and have found that it is better to judge each individual horse rather than simply make assumptions based on breed stereotypes. The first Arabian I met was not a stellar representative of the breed. I did not judge the entire breed by that singular individual, nor even by the others I encountered that were not suited to my taste in horseflesh. ;-) Just like I don't judge all mustangs by the ones I've met that were difficult to handle and/or had jarring gaits due to their less than ideal riding horse conformation. And I sure don't judge all mustangs based on the documented stories of serious injuries to and deaths of their owners from being thrown, kicked, or trampled by their beloved mustangs. That would be silly of me, wouldn't it?

In spite of having encountered some poor examples of the Arabian breed, I WAS still able to see the wonderful qualities of the good ones when I encountered them. Since I have now met and ridden far more of the wonderful ones, I find your characterization of the breed as universally weak, not sane, and prone to leaping off cliffs to be totally inaccurate to my own experience and competely contrary to the evidence of their suitability as endurance horses. FWIW, I *like* many of the mustangs I've met (and many horses of many different breeds--I'm not "just an Arabian fan"). For me this discussion isn't about one breed versus another; it is about dispelling ludicrous hyperboles and mythologized fantasies of horror about one particular breed.

Furthermore, the dominance of Arabians at the highest levels of endurance completely disproves your blanket condemnations of the breed. The Arabians who are winning at the highest levels of the sport ARE sure-footed, smart, athletic, sane, and supremely capable at endurance. For you to disrespect their accomplishments and dismiss them as weak and inferior when the overwhelming evidence is to the contrary only shows that you are out of touch with the true nature of the best of the breed. Perhaps your time working with "real" Arabians at the endurance ranch will help open your mind and heart to how wonderful a good Arabian is.

Best of luck to you with your mustangs. I hope you find the success you seek. Just realize that you don't achieve success through unfair criticisms of your best competitors. Good sportsmen/women respect and admire their competitors ;-)

[rcloisonne]

I will be training Arab foals and will soon be living at a famous Arab endurance ranch(not giving the name out) while I go to school. I am training in exchange for rent. So maybe I will have a different opinion about Arabs. For now, I dont like them.
I certainly hope you have told the owners of this farm you don't like their horses. Why not get a job training mustangs? Plenty of them need a lot of work.

[islandhorse]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbhorses
I will be training Arab foals and will soon be living at a famous Arab endurance ranch(not giving the name out) while I go to school. I am training in exchange for rent. So maybe I will have a different opinion about Arabs. For now, I dont like them.


Ummm, I can tell you right now, there is a good chance the Arabs are not going to like YOU when you are coming in with that "For now, I don't like them" attitude!!! Not even a "I hope" or "I'm sure I'll have a different opinion about Arabs." That is one of the most insane things I have heard in a long time!!

Does this "famous Arab endurance ranch" know this?!!!???

Arabians are very intune to their handler and whoever approaches them and are extremely good at reading body language. Geez, I feel bad for those Arabians you'll be responsible for.

Oh, please let me know which ranch it is. I'll be sure to never buy an Arabian there with your handywork all over it.